Kickstarting Traveller Products

[phavoc]

So I've participated in a few projects - T5, Fat Cat Trader, Cirque, and Six Guns Lasers. Right now I'm batting 50% completion, and 0% of the projects meeting their projected release dates.

I'm somewhat indifferent to release dates - at least with information being sent along. These are all neat add-ons, nothing required.

But I'm pretty intolerant to non-delivery. Of the four projects I've participated in, the Fat Cat Trader is over a year late to deliver the books (which are supposed to be in hand awaiting mailing), and Six Guns Lasers appears to be a complete loss (the author died).

Pre-buying products makes sense on a logical level. It means more money in the hands of the people who are making it, which hopefully translates into higher production values. But thus far I'm probably batting .25 on that. A publisher can provide a TON of value to the release of the product. When I went through the snafu of Mercenary being a total clusterfrak in printing, the publisher (MGT) stepped up and made it right. Smaller companies would be unable to do so without larger financial resources.

On Drivethru we've seen some of the smaller presses put out some outstanding materials, and some less outstanding. Their usual saving grace is that there is something to look at.

At this point I think I've been burned enough on Kickstarter to more or less abandon it as a platform for getting Traveller products into the hands of gamers.

What does everyone else think?

 

[sideranautae]

What does everyone else think?

1) I would not do any where Marc was in charge.
2) I'd only do it once a PDF is produced that shows a high quality in rules writing (sans artwork) as that doesn't require external funding.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm most reluctant to pre purchase a product (of any kind) because you simply don't know what you're getting.

I understand how the funding can bring to print products that wouldn't otherwise see the light of day but I'm a little old fashioned in thinking that if a product has been planned well and the market exists, there's a company out there that will invest in it in order to make a profit.

I like the pressure of the market to influence the quality of the product (in a good way, don't rush to market before a product is ready).

It's not like you can ask for a refund if the product disappoints when it finally arrives.

 

[Saladman]

I think Kickstarter was originally conceived as a funding mechanism, not a pre-order service. In principle, you're an investor, not a customer. Its fair to say that's not how either the backers or the creators are using it anymore, but that was the original pitch. The market's still settling around how it's actually being used.

What I've seen people talking about on other rpg boards is a two part test: Is there a finished or near-finished draft? And can we see it if we pledge? Because if there is a draft, then paying for professional art, layout or printing are reasonable expenses, that a small operator might not have in hand. And if backers get a copy, then they've got something in hand if the project goes south, and hey- free feedback and editing!

On the other hand, if there's no finished draft, then the creator is promising to buckle down and finish up the notes he's got, if you give him money up front, which he'll totally leave untouched in the bank to cover fulfillment, while he sits and writes for months. You can see how that can go wrong, even if the project was started in good faith.

Other factors - have they fulfilled a Kickstarter before? That's a catch-22, but it does matter. New creators probably need to stick to something simple. Are stretch goals in the same wheelhouse as the project? That is, dice or minis or other tchochkes added on to a simple rpg book are a danger sign to me, not a positive. I want fulfillment to be as simple as possible. Is there a hefty charge for overseas shipping for physical products? I actually want to see one, free shipping anywhere in the world makes me think they haven't even priced it, and they risk going negative if they ship.

As an aside, I'm two for two on projects being received on time, with one more due next year, and one that never funded (which is to say, it never reached its goal and no-one got billed, so the system worked). But, none of those were Traveller projects. :/

 

[dragoner]

I think Kickstarter was originally conceived as a funding mechanism, not a pre-order service.

^^^This. In business terms, it's creative finance. However, that doesn't remove the onus on the promissory party on delivering what they promised to deliver. But what I do see (and I wrote a final paper on Kickstarter), is how inexperienced with business the usual kickstarter person is, on both sides. Caveat emptor still applies, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Not too many direct rip-offs on the site, which is good.

 

[JRoss]

Anything by Kevin Crawford is fantastic. He doesn't run a campaign until the entire draft is written and in layout. He then uses the funds to pay for art and advertising. His model, which he details in his KS descriptions, is ideal.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I see some kickstarts as a gauge of interest, pre order method, and promotional marketing system created by an established company who could get the money needed elsewhere if necessary. However often it's a miniaturized version of financing a startup (because of the small individual investment) with none of the actual owning a piece of the company and the possible gains. You are often paying the same amount or getting the same "limited edition, signed by the..." stuff as a company would do for a pre order. It's too easy to misuse as creative finance for those who can't find traditional investors who would probably do background checks, require a good business plan, experienced leadership, and have contracts to help protect their interests.

Personally I stay away from it but then I'm the type to not pre order and also not be one of the first buyers and instead usually wait for something to come out and see what peoples feedback is before getting something.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Kickstarter is swag that you pay for, and sometimes actually get.

 

[Reynard]

Kickstarters are the scariest marketing trend I've ever seen! Hi, you don't know me but I have an idea for a product that I can't afford so I want strangers to send me oodles of money and you'll have to trust me I work on it... eventually.

Even a snake oil salesman had a bottle with something in it you got to own.

 

[sideranautae]

Even a snake oil salesman had a bottle with something in it you got to own.

:lol: Well put Reynard

 

[Epicenter]

Remember, Kickstarter is a gamble.

There is no guarantee that you're going to get anything.

You're betting your money and your hopes on something that may not come true.

Unless you're giving an amount of money that is a pittance to you, some amount you wouldn't even care about, do your research before you invest. If it's a pittance, then losing it falls under #firstworldproblems.

Otherwise, you as might as well be going to Vegas or buying Lotto tickets. The odds of a Kickstarter working out are a bit higher on average, but RPG things seem unusually bad for fulfillment.

This is not necessarily because the authors are slackers or scammers, but also that a lot of amateurs do not understand the actual costs of bringing things to print and the costs of "high production values" that many desire. Many authors can fall into the trap where they ask for a certain amount of money and find out that isn't nearly enough to do even half of what they want. They ask for more money and other costs pop up. They ask for more times and their userbase decides they can't afford it or they no longer trust the guy anymore. Then the project just ends up stillborn because the author can't fulfill all the orders without paying for it out of pocket.

For instance, some niche sci-fi book with the same production values as Wizards of the Coast's D&D hardbacks may cost double or even more what those D&D hardbacks cost simply because WotC was able to get discounts due to large print runs - something some niche sci-fi RPG book is never going to get. Thankfully most niche RPG publishers aren't going for textbook-grade binding and so on, so it won't be that expensive, but publishing things always costs much, much, much more than those who are not in the industry think.

 

[Matt Wilson]

1. Have they published anything before? KS or otherwise?

2. Are they keeping the stretch goals and other crap to a reasonable level?

If those two are a yes, I'm probably in. Otherwise I'm pretty wary.

And it's the second more than the first of those two questions that gives me worry. Stretch goals are the dumbest thing ever. "If I get more backers, I will add things that ensure I make less money and make it harder to deliver! Yay!"

And yeah, if it's a RPG, there's no excuse to do the KS before you've actually written and tested the rules. A garage operation shouldn't need funding to cover a weekly game night.

 

[Jacqual]

I have backed a few KS, and so far most have paid out with the goods. Some have taken extra time (sometimes so much extra time you think you are getting robbed). But I ordered so really nice decks of cards for my wife which she has loved. I ordered dice which is now working on its second year of not showing up, but the guy was swamped with many more orders then he expected and folks are getting the dice just slowly.

But yes KS is a gamble would I ever do a KS myself, maybe but I would have the project basically finished before the KS even was posted and use funds to do art and layout to completely finish. I think I would also see if it was a book to have it delivered via lulu.com or something, if I was able to get more stuff out of my hands and into the hands of folks that know how to do shipping and all that. These things i feel would help make it a better experience to all involved.

 

[TrippyHippy]

With regards to the notion that Kickstarter is a gamble, it is worth noting that publishers who renege on their backers in anyway are also pretty much gambling on their own reputation with customers too. For a fledgling company this may mean very little, but for established companies looking to find a mechanism for maximising early revenue in ‘dream' projects it could have a substantial impact on their ongoing custom. In short, Kickstarter should not be seen as a consequence free gamble by anybody.