Jump point bomb fixes
- Thread starter Burger
- Start date
Well obviously being fictional, we don't know the duration of the energy spike, whether it's an instantaneous, or build up, or what. but meh!
I just don't want bluestars exploding my fleet while the little buggers are sat in hyperspace, as believe me, if they come through I am e-mining the critters!
I just don't want bluestars exploding my fleet while the little buggers are sat in hyperspace, as believe me, if they come through I am e-mining the critters!
TenaciousB
Mongoose
hiffano said:
The duration of the energy spike goes at the speed of plot :lol:
I voted for Scenario only, cos its a cheesy tactic, whatever way you look at it.
I'm also reminded of the scene from Star Wars (slightly off-topic, but who cares), where R2-D2 is playing Chewbacca at space chess (or whatever the game is).
Imagine replacing the game they're playing with ACTA.
R2-D2 jpb's Chewie's fleet.
C-3PO says "It's a perfectly valid move! Shouting about it isn't going to make any difference!"
Han Solo reminds Threepio about the fact that he's playing a Wookiie, and is likely to get his arms ripped off and beaten with the wet end if that tactic is tried again.
That's what SHOULD happen if someone uses that trick. :wink:
TenaciousB
Mongoose
Burger said:
Does he shout and growl a lot if someone uses the jpb tactic on him? If so, then YES!!!! :lol:
Name an episode? I don't remember them ever having a clue what is going to come through a jump point.katadder said:
Yes, they always use jump points when they generate them in the show. It's not my fault they don't think of these obvious ideas... like I said if the game's tactics were limited to what is in the show, it would be a very dull game.
Sulfurdown
Mongoose
I'm pretty sure they didn't use it in the show because A) it's not all that cinematic - though it could lead to some ominous foreshadowing that a point was opened but nothing came through... and B) because of the tremendous energy and slow recharge rates for creating a J/P. Given the choice between a gate and a point most ships seemed to use a gate to conserve their energy.
In fact in Severed Dreams, until the Minbari ships and White Star were actually through the jump points, Babylon 5 hadn't a clue who, what (or even if) was coming through the jump points.Burger said:Name an episode? I don't remember them ever having a clue what is going to come through a jump point.katadder said:
Yes, they always use jump points when they generate them in the show. It's not my fault they don't think of these obvious ideas... like I said if the game's tactics were limited to what is in the show, it would be a very dull game.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
katadder said:
yep
in "A Voice In The Wilderness II" they say "something big is coming through the jump point"
in "The Gathering" they know Vorlons are coming through and the difference between one and a fleet
CheesyRobMan
Mongoose
Yet another case of drama overruling consistency :wink:
Okay...
In answer to my 'formation' and 'location' arguments folks say that hyperspace is different. It's smaller, so two points in hyper can be very far away in real. If that is so and these jump points are so large, how the heck do you determine one point from the next from the hyper side. Or is it that hyper is just small enough for your purposes but just too big for mine?
Burger had a good argument with the Omega with a Hermes point in front and its own point behind. My response remains that I don't believe these two points would be conveniently opening right where you want them, facing the way you want them. Hyper may be small, but it does not seem to be conveniently small enough that folks do the kind of things you want them to do. Be much more like why can't the omega run around in a circle to go through one of the two points facing away from him.
Remember at least at the moment jump points are directional. If they weren't I might buy into the my hole can go anywhere theory but as it is, hyper seems to have a much more real and close relationship with normal space than the 'it's small theory' would indicate. Guess on some level I prefer to think of hyper as allowing you to go faster rather than just be small.
We also see the whitestars enter a few fights after the shadow war where other fleets are fighting. They don't hold back in hyper trying to be clever. When they attack the Omega's (Shadow Omegas?) on the way to earth they don't hold back or play in and out games like they try against the drahk mothership (hmm...two seperate scenario's there?). That was a fight where they did not just have the firepower to walk all over them.
As to the point about the two points going wrong...you have to rely on the other guy having ships in hyper too to make your case? His only possible tactical response to being out maneuvered by hyper is to have hyper ships of his own? (How many scenarios allow both players to have ships in hyper?) That's why you object to this proposal?
Well depending on what he's got in hyper your still golden aren't you, as the fleet he's turning toward you is not big shakes, half his ships are elsewhere aren't they? If it turns out that you preplotted you heavy drop on that side you should clean the floor with him while he waits for his badly misdeployed ships to arrive. If its your decoy force, simply don't come through (you'd obviously die) and laugh maniacly (sp?) as he frantically turns to bring his ships back to bear while you on board fleet and the rear guns from your jumpers clobber him (rear guns being short ranged in general yours should get into the fight long before his ships come around given he has to come out towards you from the jp as you laid it out. Still not seeing anything here that's a disaster for you.
Gah....how do I get dragged into these long posts all the time...
Ripple
In answer to my 'formation' and 'location' arguments folks say that hyperspace is different. It's smaller, so two points in hyper can be very far away in real. If that is so and these jump points are so large, how the heck do you determine one point from the next from the hyper side. Or is it that hyper is just small enough for your purposes but just too big for mine?
Burger had a good argument with the Omega with a Hermes point in front and its own point behind. My response remains that I don't believe these two points would be conveniently opening right where you want them, facing the way you want them. Hyper may be small, but it does not seem to be conveniently small enough that folks do the kind of things you want them to do. Be much more like why can't the omega run around in a circle to go through one of the two points facing away from him.
Remember at least at the moment jump points are directional. If they weren't I might buy into the my hole can go anywhere theory but as it is, hyper seems to have a much more real and close relationship with normal space than the 'it's small theory' would indicate. Guess on some level I prefer to think of hyper as allowing you to go faster rather than just be small.
We also see the whitestars enter a few fights after the shadow war where other fleets are fighting. They don't hold back in hyper trying to be clever. When they attack the Omega's (Shadow Omegas?) on the way to earth they don't hold back or play in and out games like they try against the drahk mothership (hmm...two seperate scenario's there?). That was a fight where they did not just have the firepower to walk all over them.
As to the point about the two points going wrong...you have to rely on the other guy having ships in hyper too to make your case? His only possible tactical response to being out maneuvered by hyper is to have hyper ships of his own? (How many scenarios allow both players to have ships in hyper?) That's why you object to this proposal?
Well depending on what he's got in hyper your still golden aren't you, as the fleet he's turning toward you is not big shakes, half his ships are elsewhere aren't they? If it turns out that you preplotted you heavy drop on that side you should clean the floor with him while he waits for his badly misdeployed ships to arrive. If its your decoy force, simply don't come through (you'd obviously die) and laugh maniacly (sp?) as he frantically turns to bring his ships back to bear while you on board fleet and the rear guns from your jumpers clobber him (rear guns being short ranged in general yours should get into the fight long before his ships come around given he has to come out towards you from the jp as you laid it out. Still not seeing anything here that's a disaster for you.
Gah....how do I get dragged into these long posts all the time...
Ripple
Sulfurdown
Mongoose
I still say that the hyperspace/realspace correlation is non-euclidean in nature. Don't know if that helps or hinders any arguments but I think it would lend that when ships open jump points they do so for themselves and their local fleet, hyperspace being too unreliable to allow a fleet to open a bunch of points and then not use them.Ripple said:
I get the impression that the choice to not jump after opening a point comes from the potential to scatter off the map in which case you'd lose valuable ships to no end because we arbitrarily limit the playing surface.
(not that I'm advocating expanding the standard game map, as it is my gaming table takes up almost too much of the room.)
EDIT - To be fair, you could also argue that a non-euclidean relationship between H/S & R/S could account for a tremendous amount of weird tactics and my opinions are not at all based on current rules mechanics, simply on the feel I get from the show.
The original ban on ships making multiple jumps between spaces was due to abuse from sweeping attack runs of ISA/Shadow type fleets, right?Ripple said:
lastbesthope
Mongoose
katadder said:
There is one instance of a JP being opened and nothing going through it, deliberately anyway.
The bonehead manoeuvre in Matters of Honour. A very special case, but there you are.
The Ws comes through the Markab gate and opens a JP (looks to be yellow so R->H JP) within the gate's JP.
LBH
(Advocate on retainer to N Nickleby :lol: )
