Judges in a firefight

[5h4ne]

A few of us played a one shot scenario last night that I wrote myself.
The perps were fairly average, with most of the stats being lifted from the Cursed Earth book.
The Judges for the most part were seasoned Judges with one or two terms under their belt.

Firefights were over before the perps got a chance to act - either stumm and sonic pulse, or just straight into hostile action with HE/ Incendiary, Heat Seeker. In about 11 or 12 perps, I think one of them got a shot off.

And what is that formidable presence thing? One Judge used it - 11inf = 11 minutes that the perps are "frozen to the spot"? Is that right?

I don't really want to have to ramp up my npcs but it seems unless I want to run some kind of superhero game it's kind of looking that way.

What are peoples experiences of Judges in firefights? Any thoughts?

I've played a few sessions of normal Mongoose traveller and the firefights have been fairly well balanced between the players and NPCs. I've also played the Games Workshop rules (recently) and liked that way of doing it..

 

[ned-kogar]

Yep, judges have been tough in our games - especially given the advantages of equipment - but I made sure the players were very aware of the appropriate use of force/judges are not assassins rules... so Hi-Ex, etc were only used when necessary, not as first recourse.

Our judges have taken a few nasty hits, but often because they've been very brave in very difficult situations.

What makes things hard for judges are all the complications of MC-1 life - always try to make sure that there's a complicating factor. And the fact that they have to act to the letter of the law or risk investigation.

Stumm's a bugger though.

I think Formidable Presence is a bit broken as written. I subtract a Perp's desperation (subtracting, cos desperation's expressed as a negative!) from the Perp's End roll to resist, and then decide an appropriate amount of time based on how much they fail the roll by (expressed as rounds in combat, minutes outside combat). And I allow a lot more range of reactions than 'frozen to the spot' - blind panic, spontaneous confession, treachery, etc.

Ned

 

[numanti]

I haveb't used the Traveller rules (I have the Dredd books, just prefer my own system) but that sounds as it should be. A group of 11 or 12 avaerage perps should stand no chance at all against a group of 3 or more Judges. I tend to play investigation heavy, combat-lite games nowadays but, yeah. Major perps will need to either be tough or have something tough protecting them - robots are always good!

Stumm is, indeed, a real pain - and your major perps will need to be ready for it. Robots, again are good, as are aliens who are immune to stumm! And don't forget to check now and again for the Judges respirators failing and the stumm affecting them!

 

[5h4ne]

thanks for the replies guys

ned-kogar - I find your take on formidable presence really useful, i'll try that next time I run (if I run) Judge Dredd with Mongoose rules.

Stumm, to be fair, was the same in the Games Workshop system - I used to use the fear of a percentage of the population dying due to an allergic reaction to ward players away from over use.

I suppose the thing I'm getting at - it kind of takes the fun out of things a little. Our group likes a mix of role play and roll play (as in throwing dice) and we all enjoy a good shoot up - we just didn't get it with mongoose Judge Dredd but we have had some good firefights in Games Workshop's version.

The scenario had a mix of helpful PCs, combatitive NPCs, investigation, moral dilemmas, but in the main it was player interaction driving it forward.. plenty of roleplay and me the GM just observing but there was no combat to top it, just "hi-ex, end of"

 

[ned-kogar]

Sounds like a nice scenario, 5h4ne...

It might be worth giving the Traveller rules another go for Dredd - our judges have been forced to use cover and stance rules quite a bit to prevent injury.. so it might just be that the initiatives let the perps down in your first one. I always set my perp initiative slightly high, so that the judges occasionally have to hasten. That's the only nudge I've really made.

For me, the character variation and personality of resulting judges makes Mongoose Dredd superior to GW. And I like the quick combat too.

I had to work out a solution for Formibable Presence - my girlfriend's Judge Allen has FP, Inf 11 and Crowd Control..

Ned

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah I had the same problem - Judges just wade through the opposition.
I just gave the perps some defensive equipment and lots of hit points to make it exciting.

 

[numanti]

I do love the character creation in Traveller Dredd. I incorporated all those tables into my rules set (which is based on the GW version, though heavily tweaked) and also a lot of the stuff from D20 Dredd - so I feel buying the stuff isn't a waste of money I just didn't want to learn a new system when the one we've been using since 2110 suits my group so much, and I can make a suitable NPC really quickly with it!

I do maintain, though, that they _should_ be able to tear through low-level perps easily. The solution is to either overwhelm them with sheer numbers, throw in a few heavies, or ramp up stats - which isn't a choice I ever make but the option is always there.

 

[Nuclear Fridge Magnet]

Stumm was introduced way back in 'Block Mania', where Dredd orders a Pat-Wagon captain to use it on a horde of maddened citizens.
The captain is hesitant to deploy it -- "It's prohibited in open areas!"
Dredd: "So is murder! Do it!!"

1 in 250 citizens has a fatal reaction to the stuff. Leaving aside Judges such as Manners and deKlerk -- who viewed citizens as vermin -- PC Judges shouldn't 'jump the queue' to Stumm without trying to get the perps to surrender.

Of course, once the munce-heads refuse to give up, then you can go all "you brought this upon yourselves!" :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

My biggest problem with this was finding ways to stop the PC judges from using their bikes. With the bike cannon, laser, and lawgiver, the they are almost invincible...

 

[dreamingbadger]

My biggest problem with this was finding ways to stop the PC judges from using their bikes. With the bike cannon, laser, and lawgiver, the they are almost invincible...

... hmmm proportionality... with a bike cannon or laser it is almost impossible to "capture a perp a vapourised perp is really difficult to question....

 

[AndrewW]

Put the judges into situations where they can't bring their bike along.

 

[robertib]

The biggest thing that your players seem to be forgeting is that they have to give the perps a chance to surrender before they can open fire.
Also, they have to take every available opportunity to bring perps in alive - too many dead perps is cause for SJS involvement (after all Rico Dredd was going to be investigated for too many deaths, but they let Joe Dredd speak to him first).

 

[numanti]

There have been several of our PC Judges over the years who have ended up on Titan for too high a bodycount and unjustified use of lethal force.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes but if the perps surrender more than occasionally its a bit boring and as soon as the perps start firing at them, the judges are justified in shooting back, are they not?

Re. the bikes thing - yes it is all about trying to put them in situations where they can't use them but that gets tricky after a while.

 

[Loz]

Yes but if the perps surrender more than occasionally its a bit boring and as soon as the perps start firing at them, the judges are justified in shooting back, are they not?

Re. the bikes thing - yes it is all about trying to put them in situations where they can't use them but that gets tricky after a while.

If they're too trigger happy, or too bike-cannon happy, have the Sector House bean counters haul them over the coals.

'So Judge Smith, I see that you expended 18,000 rounds of SE ammunition over the course of the last month and 20,000 rounds of bike cannon shells. Yes, yes, I understand that those perps needed apprehending, but let me put it this way. Each round expended costs the Sector House Cr1, in terms of the paperwork needed to re-order the ammunition and then the production cost itself. Were you aware that, single-handedly, Judge Smith - that's single-handedly - you spent the entire Sector House ammunition budget for the month of June? No? Beneath that helmet I can't see if you're concerned or not, so let me spell it out in ways that you may comprehend.

1. You can't have any more bullets for the rest of the month. Neither can your bike. Or next month, for that matter.

2. Your patrol squad will also be forced to ration their ammunition; whatever supplies they have left then that's it until the end of next month. Perhaps you can explain to them why they'll be forced to rely on daysticks a lot more.

3. If this happens again, it might be necessary for us to recommend you to a patrol where the expenditure of costly ammunition isn't so acute. Kindergarten Education say, or traffic detail.

Very good Judge Smith. I'm so pleased we had this little lesson in economics. You are dismissed.'

Judge Smith (beneath his breath): 'Wanker'.

 

[numanti]

Or, of course, get them out of the City and away from anywhere with fresh ammo. The Cursed Earth is always nice at this time of year.

Before now I've had them out on the Black Atlantic, off planet, and lots more. The Scector House needing to cut it's budget bt 25% also helps - they won't give new ammo until all the old stuff is used up - no more getting an entire new clip because thay have used 3 bullets!

My team is off on a trip through time from tomorrow - chasing after some unknown creature who has started a Time War.

First stop - 2010, Manchester, UK, where they lose their time machine... not to worry, though - they will get it back under mysterious circumstances just when they think they are totally beaten >:} Should be fun :twisted: They'll be here about 6 weeks with no bikes, no money and no food. And just their uniform for clothing... I'm mostly using the plot outline for Stainless Steel Rat Saves The World - it's translated to the game really well... I've used it before but not with these players - it went down very well.

 

[Nuclear Fridge Magnet]

If your players insist on lobbing bike cannons and hi-ex at everything they face, set things up where they've got no option but to use restraint!

1) The gang leader is needed alive for questioning about the sector's umpty-bagging pipeline.

2) The gang is holed up next to a derelict gas-pipeline station. A stray high-powered bullet or laser blast would take out the entire street.

3) There are too many innocent citizens around. Despite their heavy-handed attitude, Judges are supposed to protect citizens.

Just some ideas; sending the players off to oversee a Hotdog Run is always fun! :lol:

 

[AndrewW]

2) The gang is holed up next to a derelict gas-pipeline station. A stray high-powered bullet or laser blast would take out the entire street.

But they don't know this and get raked over by the sector chief for their careless actions that cost the lives of innocent citizens.

 

[Nuclear Fridge Magnet]

2) The gang is holed up next to a derelict gas-pipeline station. A stray high-powered bullet or laser blast would take out the entire street.

But they don't know this and get raked over by the sector chief for their careless actions that cost the lives of innocent citizens.

Heh heh heh. I like this one! It would rein in the uber-power-gamer types nicely... the ones who survive the 'Mishap on 93rd Street', that is.

I have had to GM with players who just don't seem to grasp the idea of juggling lit dynamite in an explosive store... and why it's a bad thing. Then they get all upset when I blow them to bits. I always refer them back to my Rule Number 1: Do Something Dumb And I WILL Kill You.

It's amazing how many people think I'm just joking... :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

Good ideas guys, thanks.