Is Runequest II for me?

[Melkor]

Hi folks -

So I eagerly picked up MRQ when it was originally released by Mongoose, then got annoyed with the contradictory nature of the rules in the main book, Player's Guide PDF, and later, even some of the combat rules in the Deluxe edition...so while we played several one-shots and combat encounters, my gaming group never really got a campaign off the ground.

Now that BRP is out with it's "Classic Fantasy" setting, that looks like a great set of rules.

That being said, should I invest in Runequest II, and if so, what has changed in the rules that make it better than the first MRQ go-round?

What makes it Runequest II better than the latest BRP?

Thanks!

 

[andakitty]

There is another really good option, Openquest, if you are not familiar with it. It is a simpler but similar game system. I am using it and cherry picking rules from MRQ, MRQII, BRP and Classic Fantasy and using Openquest as the base framework. Have a look if you haven't seen it. It's a good option for those of us not entirely happy with the RQII ruleset (or MRQ1 for that matter). A quick Google search and you can look at a free download, too.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I'm not sure the original poster said he was unhappy with the RQII system - more that he wanted to know how it compared to the first MRQ game.

That's easy: it blows it out of the water.

In my view, the RQII engine is the best fantasy system currently on the market, with a flexible, detailed but very straightforward character generation, and exceptionally good combat system that allows players to be tactical and creative. The magic systems are pretty interesting too, and there is a very good range of celebrated setting that support in now too.

In short, if you've been disappointed with RQ in the past, then RQII answers pretty much all of the doubts with aplomb.

If you are comparing it with both OpenQuest or Classic Fantasy, I would say that while those two are good solid systems, RQII is basically more sophisticated in what it sets out to do - but it's a very well polished engine that really works, and captures all the best aspects of gritty fantasy, with full bodied flavour.

 

[Mugen]

What I like in MRQ 2 that is not in BRP :

-Character creation;
-MRQ 2 skill base% are all based on the sum of 2 characteristics;
-Less primary skills;
-Maneuvers system;
-Skill opposition system instead of resistance table;
-A very flexible magic system;
-Legendary abilities (which are more like Land of Ninja Ki powers in MRQ2).

OpenQuest is also a very solid system for "gritty" heroic-fantasy. In some ways, its take on Divine magic can be seen as superior to MRQ2.

In my view, MRQ2 is what MRQ1 could have been if its designers had more experience with BRP in general and/or if it had been a little more playtested. Lawrence Whitaker and Pete Nash did a great job in re-working what was not functional in MRQ1, yet they tried to keep what made it distinct from BRP.

My only problem with MRQ2 is that I prefer "StormBringer-like" health systems with generic hit points and major wounds threshold.
Nevertheless, there is a system included in the rulebook as an option for NPC. If you don't mind the increase in mortality, it can be used for PCs also...

 

[Deleriad]

I would say that MRQ2 takes most of the flawed innovations in MRQ1 and fixes them. So for example skill lists remain short but have been better thought through. Combat Actions are better implemented, wounds and resilience hang together and so on.

There are also major new innovations, most notably combat manoeuvres that fold together precise attacks, the results of criticals and various combat options into a single unified mechanic.

Magic has also been completely rebuilt. One the surface it looks similar to MRQ1 (and previous editions of RQ) but once you get beyond common magic into higher magic, the power level has been turned up to 11. In general, MRQII is given a dose of 11 all the way through the system making it probably the most cinematic BRP game yet. I tend to think of it as RQ "Die Hard."

The whole thing is coherent, unified and probably the most radical revisioning of RQ since the old RQ3 edition in 1984.

Of course Mongoose being Mongoose, their quality control is variable at best. The RQ2 core book is great but some of the generic supplements have been reworkings of MRQ1 supplements that have failed in part or nearly totally to be properly revised. Monster Coliseum is the honourable exception. I haven't seen Empires yet so it's not clear whether these were teething problems or something that is systemic.

BRP can be thought of as a "greatest hits" that largely draws on Elric!/Stormbringer 5 for the fantasy elements, Call of Cthulhu for modern elements and Superworld for the super-powered stuff. BRP essentially lets you retro-engineer previous BRP games but doesn't add any particular innovation. Classic Fantasy uses BRP to imagine what if someone had created D&D using BRP back in the day.

Is it worth while trying MRQ2? If you liked MRQ1 but got annoyed with its obvious problems (as I did) then odds are MRQ2 is what you're looking for. If on the other hand you're looking for something with more of an old-school D&D like feel then Classic Fantasy is probably the way to go.

 

[andakitty]

I was just offering another option, trippy. Didn't say anything was bad. Don't try to put words in my mouth. :roll:

For the record, I don't think RQII is the best. The combat system looks great, but is a little too detailed for me. Which is strange for a system that is supposed to be simple and fast. It's not bad, though. :wink:

 

[danbuter]

I think RQII is the best version of Runequest to date. I also think you should only buy the main rulebook and Monster Coliseum (and maybe Glorantha, if you like that setting), as the rest of the line is poorly edited conversions of RQI material.

 

[Agonovos]

I had heavy doubts about to buy RQII.
I own ELRIC!, BRP, CoC and so played most of my Roleplaying with the RQ-Engine. I sold my german Issue of RQ3 just in March.
My doubs were about where should RQII can make an Improvement/Different to all this Fahters/Grandpas of the RQ-Engine?
BRP ist an cool "Best Off" and you can pick what you like?
I play MRQ1 Hawkmoon modified (i play always with General-HP introduced in ELRIC!/Stormbringer).
WHY should i spend money for another Rq-Variant?
I bought RQ2 cause i was in a funny mood. I began to read with no much expections but was very surprised.


My Opionion:
RQ2 vers BRP.

RQ2: it have many cool improvemnets (Combat Maneuver). The Rules are interesting to read and clear. Loz & Nash did a very good Job.

So i like BRP too, but is just an "Best Off".
RQ2 bring all you need fast to the Point, with many small helpfull comments. It offers you a nice Rule-System with cool modern twists (Loz did a great job).
BRP seems indeed a little bit dusty and Old-School compared to RQ2.

So i recommend RQ2 and as fundament and add the Elemensts from BRP if you like.
I expected it will be BRP with some stuff from RQ2.

And last but not least: RQ2 looks very good, even it appearance is modern and BRP looks dusty.

So just my opinion, i hope it helps.

 

[Melkor]

Thanks for the reply folks. A few quick follow up questions:

I understand that MRQ II uses fighting styles instead of singular weapon or shield skills. That being the case, if you have a sword and shield style, but lose the shield in combat...or if you are using some kind of weapon which can be used in one (hand with a shield) or two hands (without a shield), how is that handled in MRQ?

Maneuvers. Can you tell me something about these? How do they work? Are the difficult to use in play (requiring looking up quite a few rules), or easy?

And finally, danbuter mentioned that the main rulebook, Monster Coliseum, and Glorantha are good books, but the rest of the books seem to be poorly converted from RQ1 (Arms & Equipment, the book on Necromancy). This makes me worry about reliving the issues with MRQI. Can somebody elaborate on this?

Thanks!

 

[JonGeere]

I've not got a number of RQII items due to being warned off them. What I have got and read is Deus Vult and Ex Cathedra which are definitely worth a look. Well written and mainly free of glaring errors.

I'm still reading through Races of Glorantha Volume 1. The main reason for getting this might be for the up dated and improved section covering trolls. The other two sections (covering dragonewts and ducks) so far look like slimmed down versions of the RQ1 editions. Be warned though, Mongoose are possibly the worst providers of maps in the history of RQ and Glorantha publication.

Thanks for the reply folks. A few quick follow up questions:
And finally, danbuter mentioned that the main rulebook, Monster Coliseum, and Glorantha are good books, but the rest of the books seem to be poorly converted from RQ1 (Arms & Equipment, the book on Necromancy). This makes me worry about reliving the issues with MRQI. Can somebody elaborate on this?

Thanks!

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

No, Mongoose don't do maps.

They are famous for it!!!

 

[Melkor]

From my previous post, anyone mind addressing these questions?

Thanks

I understand that MRQ II uses fighting styles instead of singular weapon or shield skills. That being the case, if you have a sword and shield style, but lose the shield in combat...or if you are using some kind of weapon which can be used in one (hand with a shield) or two hands (without a shield), how is that handled in MRQ?

Maneuvers. Can you tell me something about these? How do they work? Are the difficult to use in play (requiring looking up quite a few rules), or easy?

 

[ThatGuy]

I understand that MRQ II uses fighting styles instead of singular weapon or shield skills. That being the case, if you have a sword and shield style, but lose the shield in combat...or if you are using some kind of weapon which can be used in one (hand with a shield) or two hands (without a shield), how is that handled in MRQ?

One of the most adjustable aspects of the game. GMs can adjust this completely to fit their game. You can be brutal (but not so realistic) and make it weapon by weapon with no breaks. You can make your players all-arounders (Myrmidon combat style- Javelin, sword and shield, dual wield sword, spear and shield, unarmed- all rolled into one). Or, somewhere in between (Sword and Shield, but any variation with weapon and style at -20 for example, anything out side of that at base chance). I think it's great, but that's just my opinion.

Maneuvers. Can you tell me something about these? How do they work? Are the difficult to use in play (requiring looking up quite a few rules), or easy?

Manuevers rock! Initially players can be repetitive and safe, but as they become more experienced, they will probably expand their repitoir. If they aren't budging, impose the optional rule for penalizing CM (combat maneuver) repetition. There is also a thread around here with extra CMs some people came up with on their own. Some are great.

The CMs work really well and are not difficult to keep track of (CAs are the toughie- and tokens work well for that).

Give it a whirl and decide for yourself! The Core Rulebook is also a great read.