In the style of Conan or in the world of Conan - thoughts?

[Doc Martin]

Reading an earlier thread about the frequency of Monsters and the supernatural in campaigns got me thinking about different ways of gaming in the Conan-Hyborian setting:

One way seeks to emulate the literary style of the stories as written by R. E. Howard - characters take part in extreme adventures battling sorcerers and unnatural beasts; their next adventure will be months in the future, the time in between being rapidly glossed over (or largely ignored) before the next bout of derring-do, quite possibly 100s of miles away.

Another seeks to emulate the world as it can be interpreted from Howard's writings - magic and monsters are rare and surprising, most enemies are men or natural beasts (some may disagree with this but it isn't an unreasonable interpretation). Even if every day or week is not actually played out, players know where their characters are, they may well be building links with NPCs and engaging in long-term goals.


I stereotype for the sake of discussion, but I get the impression many campaigns discussed on this forum could fall somewhere into these two categories. I am certainly not saying one is better than the other or more 'correct' or 'in genre'. Just wondering how you play, your thoughts on this style and other styles, and why you have chosen to play that way - or indeed, other styles I haven't even thought of? Finally, whether in the 'style' or the 'world' - how do you seek to achieve that.

Look forward to the discussion.

 

[worldeater]

so far i'm running my campaign as a continuous storyline. each session picks up where the last one left off. this is kind of necessary because play goes slow, and i've got tons of far-flung plot elements that won't be resolved for quite a while. so in this way it's not very much like the stories.
also, i'm fudging a lot of the setting and rules to be the way i picture the world, not necessarily how the game designers pictured the world. it works out because none of my players have read much REH, nor have they read much of the rulebooks.

 

[Faraer]

As I recently posted, let's remember that these stories were written for and published in Weird Tales, and had Bob been writing them for a magazine that accepted non-supernatural stories set in imaginary time periods they probably, I think, would not all have had weird elements -- a large part of the origin of the Hyborian Age was a place where he could set a range of historical adventure stories without having to create a new protagonist for each.

Also, bear in mind that the Conan stories were originally published and read months apart -- less impression of supernatural crowding than if you read the collections all in one go. Similarly, I'd shy from too many magic and monsters if I played the Conan RPG every week, but would feel differently if I played infrequently.

Obviously there's no should here except in terms of the best ways of achieving particular purposes. I tend to prefer somewhere between the published stories and the literal continuity in terms of weird stuff, but I wouldn't want to lose the episodic structure, which is for me a big part of the charm of the Hyborian Age as Bob wrote it.

Another useful way of looking at setting emulation is in terms of theme, tone/texture and continuity, which adapting to different mediums sometimes brings into conflict.

 

[emirikol]

To review the two choices:
1. Episodic with fade-to-black in between (like the old D&D style of "you wake up at the dungeon")
2. Ongoing campaign (like the online gaming style of "you are going to mine for resources in between going on adventures to get gold to build your city.)

I don't like either one at the extreme, but to lean one way, I much prefer the episodic style. I already have a life, so #2 is not my preferred way of "escaping"

Players already EXPECT consistency in a world, especially one like Hyboria where it's already got some simple borders (humanocentric, few but nasty monsters, sorcery is inherently evil and widely non-utilitarian, might-makes-right, etc.).


jh

 

[urdinaran]

I ran my campaign inbetween the two, leaning a little more towards episodic.

The only reason that my campaign was a bit ongoing at times was when the PCs were in a city and had joined a gang of thieves. At this point I would only fast-forward a couple of weeks at a time. This was done to let the players develop their characters, so they felt like they had a little more control of their futures. Later on, when I felt the current story had run its course, I would revert to fast-forwarding them.

As for monsters in Conan RPG, I have only used them a couple of times. I feel using them adds excitement to the campaign, since the players will never know what they will be up against. The trick is to not use them too much, or it ruins the atmosphere.

 

[rgrove0172]

The trick is to not use them too much, or it ruins the atmosphere.

I agree completely. Just because the supernatural appears in every Conan story does not make it necessary in every Conan RPG session.

 

[The King]

Anyway, whatever the magic, it's stays at a quite low level, i.e. no fireballs, wish, etc.

Most always, critters are animals fron ancient times, from beyond (demons) or very weird in that they developped differently and derived from say a species commonly known.

It's quite hard to invent other races per se because Howard developped his Hyborian Age quite well. So you may have orcs if you wish but this race shouldn't have expanded very well.

 

[thulsa]

So you may have orcs if you wish

Sacrilege!

:shock:

- thulsa

 

[Krushnak]

i use both in my campaign where i deem it appropriate to keep the story flowing smoothly.

i use the supernatural quite a bit, it's always there lurking in the shadows. the pc's cant see it, but they know it's there. when they actually do encounter something weird i tend to make it an extremely hard encounter for the pc's to all survive.

i plan to use 'orcs' in my game, they are gonna be the primitive human savages living in the mountains around nordheim, afterall the orc we all know and love originated from beowulfs saga.

 

[The King]

So you may have orcs if you wish

Sacrilege!

:shock:

- thulsa

What is an orc but a kind of Neanderthal man with prominant fangs?

Come on Thulsa, if you read all the pastiche works, you probably have read worse than that (what about the talking pink worms of Steve Perry riden by a nymphomaniac witch?).

 

[Yogah of Yag]

...afterall the orc we all know and love originated from beowulfs saga.

It's been a few years since I've read Beowulf, but where were these "orcs"??? There was a reference to sea-monsters, Grendel, Grendel's mum, then the fire-drake. Am I missing something? Granted, I have not yet read Beowulf: The Director's Cut. :shock:

 

[slaughterj]

As I recently posted, let's remember that these stories were written for and published in Weird Tales, and had Bob been writing them for a magazine that accepted non-supernatural stories set in imaginary time periods they probably, I think, would not all have had weird elements -- a large part of the origin of the Hyborian Age was a place where he could set a range of historical adventure stories without having to create a new protagonist for each.

That seems somewhat speculative. Do you have any preliminary drafts of Conan tales that lack fantastic/supernatural elements? I understand your point, but REH may well have intended to do exactly what he did for the Conan stories, and leave more mundane stories for other magazines that deal with fighting stories, etc. I think you have to interpret intent based on the result without evidence to the contrary.

 

[slaughterj]

The trick is to not use them too much, or it ruins the atmosphere.

I agree completely. Just because the supernatural appears in every Conan story does not make it necessary in every Conan RPG session.

He said "monsters" - that is different from "supernatural". He may not use monsters every session, but still may include something supernatural. That's what I do, as supernatural can include other things such as sorcery, weird happenings, etc.

 

[slaughterj]

I run Conan as "semi-episodic" - I don't deal with the mundane BS in-between interesting adventures, but the adventures are usually within a month and a neighboring country of the previous event (i.e., not years apart and cross-continent), and start off by saying "after the events last session, you have ended up in the present situation because of X," and start the adventure, typically in media res to be exciting right off. I minimize bookkeeping (i.e., keeping track of rations, basic equipment, etc.) and focus on the entertaining adventure that virtually always starts off mundane (encounters with soldiers, bandits, pirates, thieves, merchants, royalty/nobility, etc.) but builds up to the fantastic/supernatural element (whether sorcery, weird happening/location, monster, or monstrous animal) present in each session just as is the case in each REH Conan story.

 

[The King]

As I recently posted, let's remember that these stories were written for and published in Weird Tales, and had Bob been writing them for a magazine that accepted non-supernatural stories set in imaginary time periods they probably, I think, would not all have had weird elements -- a large part of the origin of the Hyborian Age was a place where he could set a range of historical adventure stories without having to create a new protagonist for each.

That seems somewhat speculative. Do you have any preliminary drafts of Conan tales that lack fantastic/supernatural elements? I understand your point, but REH may well have intended to do exactly what he did for the Conan stories, and leave more mundane stories for other magazines that deal with fighting stories, etc. I think you have to interpret intent based on the result without evidence to the contrary.

He is right slaughterj; in fact Howard wanted to write stories in an historical settings (because history was his hobby) but was asked by the magazines directors for whom he worked to add fantasy because it would sell better.

 

[emirikol]

ii plan to use 'orcs' in my game, they are gonna be the
primitive human savages living in the mountains around nordheim, afterall the orc we all know and love originated from beowulfs saga.

Orcs 'aint' so bad, but to keep in theme, I do recommend what the other poster said about making them neanderthals or "degenerate men."




jh

 

[The King]

The novel "Conan the barbarian" written by de Camp is very similar to the first movie (I think de Camp wrote the script or worked as an adviser).

In the movie the troops of Thulsa Doom seem to be human even if they brew human stew. In the book however, these are clearly ogres (they are described as massively built, humanoïd but somewhat degenerate) which feed through cannibalism. In fact they are so inhuman that they are never seen by the worshippers.

The border between orcs and ogres is then very thin.

I usually dislike de Camp novels (I prefer his short stories) but I admit I like this one + Conan and the spider gods which fit weel in this Hyborian world.

 

[slaughterj]

As I recently posted, let's remember that these stories were written for and published in Weird Tales, and had Bob been writing them for a magazine that accepted non-supernatural stories set in imaginary time periods they probably, I think, would not all have had weird elements -- a large part of the origin of the Hyborian Age was a place where he could set a range of historical adventure stories without having to create a new protagonist for each.

That seems somewhat speculative. Do you have any preliminary drafts of Conan tales that lack fantastic/supernatural elements? I understand your point, but REH may well have intended to do exactly what he did for the Conan stories, and leave more mundane stories for other magazines that deal with fighting stories, etc. I think you have to interpret intent based on the result without evidence to the contrary.

He is right slaughterj; in fact Howard wanted to write stories in an historical settings (because history was his hobby) but was asked by the magazines directors for whom he worked to add fantasy because it would sell better.

Some more info on that would be appreciated, as that does not seem to really address the matter. Howard seemed to write those sorts of stories for other magazines just fine. There may well have been correspondence between Howard and the Weird Tales directors that fantasy-based stories would be appropriate or necessary for their magazine, but hey, it's not a "weird tale" without such things right?! If he didn't want to write those sorts of tales and just wanted to write more historical sorts of stories, there were evidently other sorts of magazines out there that he could and did submit such stories to, so I really don't see how the Weird Tales people telling Howard that their magazine required "weird tales" results in forcing him to write fantasy stories, but rather is a suggestion of what he should create if he wants to sell to them. Further, given all the development Howard did of characters in different ages (Kull, Conan, etc.) and the changes in the world along the way (i.e., Kull kicked the serpent people's asses, thus not really around in Conan), it seems he was very intentional in the sort of fantastic elements (or lack thereof) that he included in a particular character's age.

 

[The King]

Some more info on that would be appreciated ...

I can't remember where I read it. May be on REHUPA (The Robert E. Howard United Press Association) http://www.rehupa.com/ but I'm not sure.

 

[slaughterj]

Some more info on that would be appreciated ...

I can't remember where I read it. May be on REHUPA (The Robert E. Howard United Press Association) http://www.rehupa.com/ but I'm not sure.

Seems like a likely source. In the end, even if Howard "De-Camped" his own stories (i.e., referring to how De Camp took even non-Conan REH stories and made them into Conan stories) to make them Conan fantasy stories, the end result is what we have and what the genre consists of.