If you ever wanted to know the origins of the concept for the Aslan...

[MasterGwydion]

The rules say here is how to generate planets.

The setting says the UPPs were last surveyed decades ago so may well have changed, thus granting referees wiggle room for their interpretation of the setting.

The rules also state that you are to use the UWP codes for the equations in the WBH. If they are only in-universe, this is not possible.

I have two copies of CT S:3 Spinward Marches - one looks like it has never been read, the other is full of annotations and my changes to UPPs and the like.

One is OTU and the other is YTU. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[rinku]

Then they are useless for building a history of Charted Space or for much other worldbuilding. I want actual facts about the setting, not people's opinions who live within the setting.

Then use the other sources that are directed at the Referee, not the players. Simple.

I would point out though that in-universe sources are at least facts about information that is available. The old TAS News article about the drop tanks that was TAS reporting from a press release from Oberlindes is an objective fact that Oberlindes issued that press release.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Then use the other sources that are directed at the Referee, not the players. Simple.

Can you point me in the right direction? I am aware of no Mongoose materials of this type. Any help would be appreciated.

I would point out though that in-universe sources are at least facts about information that is available. The old TAS News article about the drop tanks that was TAS reporting from a press release from Oberlindes is an objective fact that Oberlindes issued that press release.

Seems to me that what this means is that there was a TAS report on an Oberlindes press release. This is a fact. There may have been a press release from Oberlindres. This is not confirmed as fact.

 

[rinku]

Or that I told you that I remembered reading about it.

At some point you have to pick your OWN frame of reference.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Or that I told you that I remembered reading about it.

At some point you have to pick your OWN frame of reference.

Or Mongoose just states what is true in the setting and then I don't have to wonder and My frame of reference is whatever Mongoose says is true. Anything not stated by Mongoose to be factual in their OTU can be classified as in-universe knowledge.

 

[actionman]

Then they are useless for building a history of Charted Space or for much other worldbuilding. I want actual facts about the setting, not people's opinions who live within the setting.

There have to be facts. Otherwise there is no baseline setting "reality" to provide refs and players a common frame of reference. The facts, not in-universe perspectives, not propaganda, not opinions, are the OTU; anything deviation from these setting facts is an ATU of whoever who made the deviation.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Point of clarification the TAS news item about drop tanks was not an Oberlindes press release (it was General Shipyards speaking about the deal they had done with Tukera) - this is how errors get into canon. Someone speaks with an authoritative voice, others take that at their word, an author comes along and writes it in their new book because they don't go back to original sources.

There are setting secrets hidden throughout CT canon because of the unreliable narration of the Imperial propaganda - I like this because it means I can make stuff up and so can my players, an often overlooked source for setting development is player participation and input.

Then there are setting elements no longer fit for purpose - the Ancients fall into this category. Mongoose supplements now assume Imperial knowledge that they simply didn't have in the original setting, yet the referee needs to know the true "secret of the ancients" - better it is left vague so referees can change stuff.

One of the reasons I really like Singularity - post campaign everything is decoupled and any setting element can be changed by a referee...

 

[MasterGwydion]

Point of clarification the TAS news item about drop tanks was not an Oberlindes press release (it was General Shipyards speaking about the deal they had done with Tukera) - this is how errors get into canon. Someone speaks with an authoritative voice, others take that at their word, an author comes along and writes it in their new book because they don't go back to original sources.

Perfect example!

There are setting secrets hidden throughout CT canon because of the unreliable narration of the Imperial propaganda - I like this because it means I can make stuff up and so can my players, an often overlooked source for setting development is player participation and input.

You can always make stuff up. That is why you play in YTU and not the OTU. We all do. As soon as we prep for the first game of the adventure or campaign, it is MTU and not the OTU. It is the job of writers to write the OTU. It is the job of Referees and Players to write their TU. So, again, you can always make stuff up.

Then there are setting elements no longer fit for purpose - the Ancients fall into this category. Mongoose supplements now assume Imperial knowledge that they simply didn't have in the original setting, yet the referee needs to know the true "secret of the ancients" - better it is left vague so referees can change stuff.

This is why it is important to separate out of game information from in game information. Those secrets can still exist, but no one in game knows them. Meaning, they are a fact in the setting, but no one int he setting knows that. That is how things are supposed to work and again, IYTU you can change anything you want for your adventures. An official setting should not be vague or it is not a defined setting, it is a concept for a setting.

One of the reasons I really like Singularity - post campaign everything is decoupled and any setting element can be changed by a referee...

This is true of every single adventure in history. They all can be changed IYTU.

 

[actionman]

This is true of every single adventure in history. They all can be changed IYTU.

I agree. Every ref's TU is an ATU, simply because different things happen in each TU. In one group's TU, the characters go to a startown bar; in another they go to a restaurant. Playing through a published adventure with one party may end in victory; with another group it may end in defeat. Every ref can change the OTU to his liking, because it is his TU, his ATU. The information in published products must be factual for the setting, and if information is meant to be unreliable in-universe, then it needs to be clearly identified as such. An example is the TNS in the CT JTAS books, with its articles about the FFW. It's the TNS, an in-universe narrator which could very well be unreliable. The TNS stated that Admiral Santanocheev was relieved for poor performance. But, if a ref decides that the Admiral getting relieved was really a cover story and he was really on a secret mission, or that he was relieved for treason not incompetence, or anything other than what the published products state, then that's his TU.

EDIT:

If a ref's TU is different in important ways, then he needs to prep his players so they know what their characters would know. That avoids the tedious experience of a player acting in good faith according to the published books, and the ref saying well no, IMTU everyone considers Vargr to be horrible pirates, or well no, psionics is an accepted discipline in the Imperium even though it's technically still illegal.

 

[rinku]

I didn't fact check myself on that one for once. Deliberately? Not saying