If you ever wanted to know the origins of the concept for the Aslan...

[rinku]

Every time I mention looking for concrete factual information for the OTU I have almost everyone on these boards telling me that there is no such thing, only in-universe perspectives. Now you are telling me that everyone else was lying to me? I guess I do look foolish for trusting that you guys know what you are talking about.

I've never said that, only that the Library Data and TAS News* stuff is in-universe, not objective fact. Anything actually labelled Referee's Notes or similar, or which are game rules without some optional rule qualification is objective. Although different authors and editions vary things.

(*TAS News "facts" are particularly unreliable, as they are usually a reporter's viewpoint of stuff that reporter has been told by a third party, who themselves may not have all the facts, or may be putting spin on the situation or outright lying. There's also probably Editorial influence, even if only regarding what stories get reported and what points are left out)

 

[MasterGwydion]

I've never said that, only that the Library Data and TAS News* stuff is in-universe, not objective fact. Anything actually labelled Referee's Notes or similar, or which are game rules without some optional rule qualification is objective. Although different authors and editions vary things.

(*TAS News "facts" are particularly unreliable, as they are usually a reporter's viewpoint of stuff that reporter has been told by a third party, who themselves may not have all the facts, or may be putting spin on the situation or outright lying. There's also probably Editorial influence, even if only regarding what stories get reported and what points are left out)

So, when I want to know how many people are on a planet, roughly, how do I go about it? I have been told repeatedly that UWPs are not factual. You can say that you never have said that all you want, but it has been said in here repeatedly, to me. I also clarified, "almost everyone", so if you included yourself in that, that is on you. If you did not, then why mention something that you obviously feel doesn't apply to you? So, how do I look foolish by agreeing with almost everyone else on here?

(I keep hearing echoes of, "Not all men...")

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Terran Humans in Traveller have been studying non-earthly genetics since the Interstellar Wars. That is several thousand years of study. The Vilani, which are a human, have been studying alien genetics for even longer.

Maybe. But how many alien species have they uplifted by humans? How many known alien species have been recipients of major genetic engineering? If none why? Why wouldn't they engineered if studied the same way?

 

[MasterGwydion]

Maybe. But how many alien species have they uplifted by humans? How many known alien species have been recipients of major genetic engineering? If none why? Why wouldn't they engineered if studied the same way?

How do you know that these things haven't happened? We have examples of species uplifted/modified by humans. Do you really think humans just stopped experimenting because it was on aliens? Beings with no "human rights". Think of the early years of human interstellar flight on Terra. Look at how the Vilani did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted until they stagnated. Do we have examples in published sources for humans uplifting/modifying alien species? Not that I am aware of, others may know, but humans are reckless mad scientists in Traveller. One planet even Grey-Gooed themselves and a new religion had to be started to save the humans from their creations. So, it seems to be extremely far-fetched to think humans haven't expermented on alien races/species.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

How do you know that these things haven't happened?

I asked HOW MANY. Because I don't know of any AND I do know my knowledge of Traveller and the 3rd Imperium in particular is not encyclopedic like many here do have.

So anyone have examples of genetically engineered (by humans in the 3rd Imperium) alien species?

 

[MasterGwydion]

So anyone have examples of genetically engineered (by humans in the 3rd Imperium) alien species?

I second the question, but why only by 3rd Imperium? Why not the 2nd Imperium? Why not by all humans?

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

I second the question, but why only by 3rd Imperium? Why not the 2nd Imperium? Why not by all humans?

Mainly because the 3rd is the default setting. But any of its predecessors are fine.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Mainly because the 3rd is the default setting. But any of its predecessors are fine.

Do Jabberwocks count?

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Do Jabberwocks count?

What little I can find on them doesn't mention them being anything but alien, no engineering so if that is accurate and up to date, of course not.

 

[MasterGwydion]

What little I can find on them doesn't mention them being anything but alien, no engineering so if that is accurate and up to date, of course not.

It says Uplifted Race on the wiki, but I don't have the book that it lists.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

It says Uplifted Race on the wiki, but I don't have the book that it lists.

View attachment 6442

That is all I found and unless I missed something it was just a alien animal unmodified by genetic engineering or even by human selection.

 

[MasterGwydion]

That is all I found and unless I missed something it was just a alien animal unmodified by genetic engineering or even by human selection.

Is it not listed as an uplifted race in that publication? What is GenAssist? It seems to be a Solomani geneering company.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Is it not listed as an uplifted race in that publication? What is GenAssist? It seems to be a Solomani geneering company.

I don't see any mention of GenAssist.

Sometimes called the nightclaw, or the fanged death, the Crested Jabberwock is a medium-sized carnivore native to Kassan (Vega 0101 A-785757-E) in the Solomani Rim. Only a few members of the species have been transported offworld.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I don't see any mention of GenAssist.

 

[MasterGwydion]

So, I guess the technical answer is, yes, humans have genetically studied and altered alien creatures. They seem to be only one example and a very niche case, so I am not sure if we can infer much from this weird case. So, you may be right, and humans cannot geneer alien species.

 

[Galadrion]

So, I guess the technical answer is, yes, humans have genetically studied and altered alien creatures. They seem to be only one example and a very niche case, so I am not sure if we can infer much from this weird case. So, you may be right, and humans cannot geneer alien species.

That may be a little strongly phrased; rather than saying "humans cannot geneer alien species" I would have phrased it as "humans have not successfully geneered alien species (depending on the criteria for success)".

We know that, canonically, geneering of alien species is possible. The Ancients, after all, did so in at least two cases, albeit from a single planetary source.

 

[Endie]

Ummm... Drinaxi and Vespexers. They live on the same planet, did not develop for hundreds of thousands of years apart, and yet have different stats than baseline humans. Using your logic, please explain.

One lot live on a blasted hellscape with radiation and disease dangers, limited resources and a constant fight for survival. It’s not evolution per se after only 200 years: it’s a combination of survival of the fittest in each generation and the effect of repeated tasks needed in day to day existence.

 

[collins355]

The problem (well its a problem from my point of view at least) with the wiki is that it is full of fanom, mixed almost indistinguishably with canon from actual published material.

The jabberwock article in the original JTAS cited makes no mention whatsoever of genassist or uplift of the species.

I think what is reproduced in the wiki is material from a fan project known as "BARD" (Bureau of Aggregate Reference Data) created by denizens of the TNE mailing list.

 

[MongooseMatt]

ASLAN - (now technically disqualified)

You would not dare say that to their faces...

 

[MongooseMatt]

The problem (well its a problem from my point of view at least) with the wiki is that it is full of fanom, mixed almost indistinguishably with canon from actual published material.

Yes, this is a problem, and one that requires some thought.