Idea for a new Dodge feat (cf. Mounted Combat)

[Clovenhoof]

I just had an idea when reading the description of the Mounted Combat feat. Isn't it strange that you can be so much more difficult to hit when mounted?

Look at the numbers:

Mounted Combat: Ride skill check replaces mount's defense. You can have up to 23 ranks in Ride, plus possible class- or feat-based boni, plus your Dex modifier, and a roll of the good ole d20 on top.
So even without specials, Mount Defense can get up to the high forties, without any disadvantage to your attack rolls.

Compare to that regular dodging on foot: maximum Dodge bonus is +15, so Dodge defence levels out at around 31. Maybe 36 if you have Combat Expertise and accept lower attack rolls for it.

Mounted Combat comes straight from D20, where it is balanced against all those magical gadgets improving Armour class. In Conan, where there are no such gadgets, it seems to be really, really powerful. Granted, you can't be mounted all the time, but still...

How about a feat that allows a footman to improve his Defence in a similar way? Maybe using the Tumble or even the Jump skill.

First draft:
Improved Dodge
Prerequisites: (maybe) Dodge, Dex 13+, Base Dodge Bonus +1, Tumble (or Jump) 1 rank
Benefit: Once per round when you are hit in combat, you may attempt a Tumble/Jump check (as reaction). The hit is negated if your skill check result is greater than the opponent's attack roll. Essentially, the check result becomes your new Defence value if it is higher than your regular Defence value.
--

If we want to make this really slick, we could say that the check result, if beneficial, sets the DV for the rest of the round.

Another effect would be that it creates a new Dodge feat chain (if accepting Dodge as a prereq). After changing Mobility to a class feature and Spring Attack to a basic manoeuvre, there's not so much incentive to exchange a feat slot for one measly point of Dodge bonus.

What do you think? Brain fart, or something long overdue?

 

[Foxworthy]

The mounted combat feat does nothing for the rider. All it doe sis possibly negate the hit on the mount. If your opponent targets the rider Mounted Combat has no use.

And the feat just seem far to powerful.

 

[argo]

Mounted Combat comes straight from D20, where it is balanced against all those magical gadgets improving Armour class. In Conan, where there are no such gadgets, it seems to be really, really powerful. Granted, you can't be mounted all the time, but still...

This is the flaw in you logic. Your statement is not the reason the Mounted Combat feat is balanced.

Mounted combat is balanced for the same reason in both D20 and Conan. It is because mounts have very low DV and not that many HP. By the time you hit low-middle levels (6th or 8th) most opponents that are a challenge for the player can kill your horse in 1-2 hits. It sucks to be a player who spent feats, skill points and gold on your mount only to have your horse killed in the first round of combat and find yourself on foot.

Furthermore, the only way to improve a mount's DV/HP is to add HD to the horse, a non-standard solutioun. And even if your GM allows you to have a "superior" horse you still only delay the problem until the horse hits its HD limit.

Notice how the DnD Paladin automatically adds both HD and bonus natural armor to its special mount as the class levels.

So the Mounted combat feat is basically a "negative" feat, the player is paying a feat to cover a natural weakness. That makes it less valuable than a feat that improves his abilities over an already-balanced point as your proposed feat does.

Also, you under-estimate the value of being able to repeatedly use a feat

Granted, you can't be mounted all the time, but still...

That is a major balance point as well. Feats that you use frequently need to be less powerful than feats you use once in a while.

Compare:
-Improved Initative, roll Init once per combat, +4 bonus
-Weapon Focus, use it every time you attack, +1 bonus
-Dodge, use it every time you are attacked, +1 bonus

Mounted Combat does not get used every combat in most campaigns, which is why that feat is allowed to be more powerful for the same price (same thing applies to the other feats in the Mounted Combat chain, you will nottice that riding a hose in battle with all the feats is a very powerful build). Your feat would get used once per round (assuming the character gets attacked that round, and if not then nobody cares) so Mounted Combat is not a good comparison for balance.


So your proposed house feat is way overpowered. I probably would not allow it below epic levels and possibly not even then (IOW to balance it you need to make the Prerequisites stupidly high).

Hope that helps.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Okay, thanks for the elaboration, argo.
It was pretty late when I wrote that post (2:30 am or something), I didn't think it all through to the end.

 

[Lord Jolly the Scribe]

Do they have rules for buying mounts with more HD and do they have rules for using Handle Animal to "level" your mount?

If not, Clovehoof make some. I'd use them.

Also, is there rules for mount barding?

 

[Sutek]

The Nomad class ability, Born to the Saddle, grants the ability to pick the best HD mounts out of a lot or herd. Furthermore, all of the creatures listed in the bestiary are average examples, so if the GM were to add HD to something, it wouldnt' be illegal or anything.

 

[Lord Jolly the Scribe]

Should there be a price change though? Should a merchant charge more for the mount or at least try to? Maybe train one a little better than others and try to get some more cash out of it.

Maybe that's just a GM call.

Hmm, a Nomad merchant would know how to sell a btter horse than just some merchants than I guess.

 

[tneva82]

Should there be a price change though? Should a merchant charge more for the mount or at least try to? Maybe train one a little better than others and try to get some more cash out of it.

Well the prices in the rulebook are clearly marked as guidelines only to begin with so if horse is particulary good/bad then of course it is going to affect the price Of course depending also on how much buyers know...If they don't have a glue about horses smart seller could fetch higher price than guideline even for worse than average horse

 

[argo]

Well, +2 CR is a 100% increase in power which suggests a doubling of price.

However, animal HD are on the weak end of the spectrum, I would not really count 1 animal HD as equal to +1 CR (generally speaking, this is art not since here folks 8) ).

So that suggests that adding 2-3 HD ought to be worth +75-100% of the purchase price. Roughly....

Of course it is worth pointing out that by the RAW horses do not have an Advancement listing, so this is all house rules. In any event, I would recomend you do not advance a horse to more than double its regular HD, meaning a max of 6HD or 8HD (depending on the breed).

Adding HD to an animal is not covered by the rules. Just making shit up off the cuff I would call it a Handle animal check; DC 15 + (new)HD total of animal and it would take 1 year for each HD you want to add above the normal total. Thats just off the top of my head.

As to weither or not a trader ought to charge more for such a horse... thats up to the skill of the trader :wink: Obviously the Nomad class ability is a good place to start.

 

[Sutek]

Now, that's something to add to 2nd edition - war animal skills.

Use Handle to train mounts to have combat tricks and wardogs to use improved trip...etc, etc, etc...

8)