Ian Sturrock: two pastiche ideas in CONAN core rules

René

Mongoose
Ian Sturrock wrote at http://www.rpg.net/forums/phorum/rf08/read.php?f=3313&i=22&t=2

"Yeah. Approximately two pastiche ideas crept into the Conan OGL main rulebook -- one of them being an oversight of mine, and the other something that fitted well enough into a small gap that it seemed appropriate."

Does anyone know what are these two?
 

thulsa

Mongoose
René said:
"Approximately two pastiche ideas crept into the Conan OGL main rulebook -- one of them being an oversight of mine, and the other something that fitted well enough into a small gap that it seemed appropriate."

Does anyone know what are these two?

I don't recall seeing a Defensive Blast in any of the REH stories...

- thulsa
 

René

Mongoose
thulsa said:
René said:
"Approximately two pastiche ideas crept into the Conan OGL main rulebook -- one of them being an oversight of mine, and the other something that fitted well enough into a small gap that it seemed appropriate."

Does anyone know what are these two?

I don't recall seeing a Defensive Blast in any of the REH stories...

- thulsa

Good point!
 
I think the defensive blast kind of sprung from one of Howard's stories (mind going blank, but maybe the "Scarlet Citidel") where Conan was hesitant to attack a sorcerer because he knew "Sorcerers are more deadly in their defense than offense".

There had to be a game mechanic to substantiate Howard’s words, which wouldn't make this a pastiche inclusion.
 

thulsa

Mongoose
Hyborian Apeman said:
I think the defensive blast kind of sprung from one of Howard's stories (mind going blank, but maybe the "Scarlet Citidel") where Conan was hesitant to attack a sorcerer because he knew "Sorcerers are more deadly in their defense than offense".

There had to be a game mechanic to substantiate Howard’s words, which wouldn't make this a pastiche inclusion.

I see your point (and I really did not think this was the pastiche stuff Ian Sturrock was talking about), but I've always thought that the connection between that REH quote and the Defensive Blast mechanic is paper-thin, at best. (BTW, I think the quote was from "Black Colossus".)

Sorcerers unleashing double-digit d6 blasts of fire is far more D&D-ish than the Conan RPG should be. There should be far better ways to implement the fact that "sorcerers are more deadly in their defense than offense", even within a low-magic paradigm.

- thulsa
 
thulsa said:
I see your point (and I really did not think this was the pastiche stuff Ian Sturrock was talking about), but I've always thought that the connection between that REH quote and the Defensive Blast mechanic is paper-thin, at best. (BTW, I think the quote was from "Black Colossus".)

Good call, that was it!

thulsa said:
Sorcerers unleashing double-digit d6 blasts of fire is far more D&D-ish than the Conan RPG should be. There should be far better ways to implement the fact that "sorcerers are more deadly in their defense than offense", even within a low-magic paradigm.

Agreed. There has already been a lot of talk on these boards how PC scholars basically act like suicide bombers and walk into the midst of a bunch of bad guys and unleash the 'defensive' blast. I do not think this is consistent with Conan's magic feel, or what Howard had in mind.
 

thulsa

Mongoose
Hyborian Apeman said:
There has already been a lot of talk on these boards how PC scholars basically act like suicide bombers and walk into the midst of a bunch of bad guys and unleash the 'defensive' blast. I do not think this is consistent with Conan's magic feel, or what Howard had in mind.

... or what Sturrock had in mind, for that matter. (But surely this behaviour must have been observed during playtesting...?)

- thulsa
 

urdinaran

Mongoose
Whereas I do not have any players w/ Scholars in my group, I can see how Defensive Blast can be overpowered. I think what is needed is some ulitarian lower level spells or cantrips so players can burn through their PP's. Just my $0.02
 

Bregales

Mongoose
urdinaran said:
Whereas I do not have any players w/ Scholars in my group, I can see how Defensive Blast can be overpowered. I think what is needed is some ulitarian lower level spells or cantrips so players can burn through their PP's. Just my $0.02
There are some spells that are the dnd equivalent of cantrips. For example, the basic spell for the Prestidigitation style of sorcery has several. Each use costs 1 PP if I remember (I'm writing this at work before Jury Duty begins tomorrow :shock: ).
 

Trodax

Mongoose
What about the Elementals in the Bestiary chapter, are they all really from Howard?

The Air and Fire elementals have small quotes from Howard tales that (sort of) support them, but what about Earth and Water?
 

René

Mongoose
Trodax said:
What about the Elementals in the Bestiary chapter, are they all really from Howard?

The Air and Fire elementals have small quotes from Howard tales that (sort of) support them, but what about Earth and Water?

I think they have appearances in Hour of the Dragon: flooding the river resp. causing an earthslide.
 
Agreed. There has already been a lot of talk on these boards how PC scholars basically act like suicide bombers and walk into the midst of a bunch of bad guys and unleash the 'defensive' blast. I do not think this is consistent with Conan's magic feel, or what Howard had in mind.

Whereas I do not have any players w/ Scholars in my group, I can see how Defensive Blast can be overpowered. I think what is needed is some ulitarian lower level spells or cantrips so players can burn through their PP's. Just my $0.02

One of the reasons I started rewriting the Sorcery rules was because of the rather unbalanced nature of the system. For example I replaced Defensive Blast with Final Strike to make it more in line with last dying curses of sorcerers than an offensive ability. I also expanded the spell list and boy, do my players scream for Power Points to keep the magic flowing. 8)

Raven
 
Raven Blackwell said:
One of the reasons I started rewriting the Sorcery rules was because of the rather unbalanced nature of the system. For example I replaced Defensive Blast with Final Strike to make it more in line with last dying curses of sorcerers than an offensive ability. I also expanded the spell list and boy, do my players scream for Power Points to keep the magic flowing. 8)

Raven,

Am I correct in my interpretation of some of your other posts that magic in your sessions is less dark and evil and more neutral?

Which is completely fair, but I think I would prefer to stay closer to Howard's interpretation of magic. I don't have a big need to retool things because my PCs fear magic as being unknown and evil, and they have scared any new PCs out of becoming a scholar because they set flat out they would lynch any spell caster they come across, PC or not.

I plan to use the defensive blast more for a scholar with a few pp left and the party closes in on him as an effort to save his ass before the PCs bring the pain.
 

Faraer

Mongoose
I really don't buy the idea that the winged demon in "The Scarlet Citadel" is an air elemental. Smacks of Derleth's elemental organization of the 'Cthulhu Mythos'.
 

Trodax

Mongoose
Faraer said:
I really don't buy the idea that the winged demon in "The Scarlet Citadel" is an air elemental. Smacks of Derleth's elemental organization of the 'Cthulhu Mythos'.
Yeah, totally. I got much more of a leathery-bat-thing-from-beyond-feel than a elemental-feel.

I dunno, elementals in general just don't seem very Howardesque to me.
 
Hyborian Apeman said:
Am I correct in my interpretation of some of your other posts that magic in your sessions is less dark and evil and more neutral?

I see magic as dangerous rather than automatically Corruptive. Power of any sort tends to amplify both a person virtues and flaws. Since magic can alter the conerstones of reality those without a clear sense of purpose often Fall to their childish desires and whims, thus creating the insane, power hungry and nearly immortal sorcerers found in Howard's fiction. Two of the sorcerers in my campaign started garnering serious Corruption and were killed for the fact their Obsession with magical Power blinded them to the danger they were in. Of the remaining two sorcerers, one's a a specialist in Hypnotism that is more a trickster than anything else and the other's about to have a serious issue with his high priest for his investigations into 'non-approved' material- like the Tormented Sacrifice Feat.

I plan to use the defensive blast more for a scholar with a few pp left and the party closes in on him as an effort to save his ass before the PCs bring the pain.

You can see my take on it on 'Raven's Rules of Sorcery v 1.1' as the 'Final Strike' post. Or I can e-mail it you if you pm a address to me, or I can post it here if no one thinks it's a waste of bandwidth.

Raven
 
I'll track it down in your Sorcerery 1.1 thread.

Note, at some point I may ask you to e-mail the master document, that is if I get to the point that I want to re tool the magic system.
 

Bregales

Mongoose
Trodax said:
Faraer said:
I really don't buy the idea that the winged demon in "The Scarlet Citadel" is an air elemental. Smacks of Derleth's elemental organization of the 'Cthulhu Mythos'.
Yeah, totally. I got much more of a leathery-bat-thing-from-beyond-feel than a elemental-feel.

I dunno, elementals in general just don't seem very Howardesque to me.
I figure they're just covering their bases; they took elementals out of the dnd universe and adapted them to make them feel more like a Hyborian being than as written in the Wizards of the Coast monster books. I don't really care either way, the only 'elemental' I'm aware of, if you can call it that, is the utter silence which Kull releases and then struggles with in one of the stories (I'm at work, don't remember it now). I guess you could say that that gave Mongoose license to adapt air, fire, earth, and water?
 

René

Mongoose
No more ideas?

Vincent, if you're reading this thread, could you maybe give a hint? Is Defensive Blast one of the two pastiche things in the core rules?
 

Brajah

Mongoose
I'll throw out a couple of ideas:

Werewolves - I remember Conan battling werehyenas and Solomon Kane fighting werewolves, but not Conan against a werewolf.

Zath - I don't know if REH ever named the Zamorian spider-god
( this is pretty picky, but I always thought the name was kind of lame)

just my two guesses
 
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