I love To the Hilt

[DrSkull]

I really just love this combat maneuver.

Besides it generally being cooler than trousers full of ice, it really saved the day for the party last Sunday. There were three first level PC's attack by a hideous monster. One swooned in teror, the second was grappled, held and was slowly being gnawed to death by said monster when the third jammed his sword "to the hilt" into the thing, backed off, and shot the occasional arrow into it as the embedded sword slowly did its deadly work. A steady 1d4 damage without DR made a crucial difference in time, killing the monster when the grappled PC was only at -3 instead of dead. And it is just cooler than trousers full of ice.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My interest is piqued (still haven't been able to buy the rulebook) - What are the details for this manouvre?

Cheers

 

[DrSkull]

If you have the Power Attack feat (and who in their right mind doesn't?) you can declare this maneuver. If you hit, you get a +1 to damage. But if your rolled damage exceeds your Strength Bonus, the weapon gets stuck in the target and does 1d4 damage each time the target takes an action.

It seems to me that this would be an especially good maneuver to use with a poniard in your off hand, to get a free +1 damage, with les risk of it getting stuck becaus eof its lower rolled damage, but it is great when you can get a weapon stuck in there for free continuous damage too (provided you have another weapon).

 

[Johannixx]

Remember, To The Hilt can only be used against an unarmored foe. Even a simple leather jerkin prevents its use.

That said, I built a Borderer who carries multiple daggers and poniards so that he can leave them sticking in Picts

 

[Yokiboy]

Remember, To The Hilt can only be used against an unarmored foe. Even a simple leather jerkin prevents its use.

That said, I built a Borderer who carries multiple daggers and poniards so that he can leave them sticking in Picts

Does a monster with natural DR count as unarmored, or are you unable to attack the Killer Cattle of Hyboria with their 36 HP and DR2! :lol:

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[slaughterj]

Remember, To The Hilt can only be used against an unarmored foe. Even a simple leather jerkin prevents its use.

That seems like an odd limitation...how about instead, it doesn't stick unless damage rolled exceeds your STR bonus + DR.

And why not be able to go "to the hilt" with a finesse attack around armor?

Also kind of odd that it'd be easier to go "to the hilt" with a weak character - it seems the stronger character should be albe to do it easier, as well as be better able to extract the weapon if desired...

 

[Johannixx]

Well, since using To The Hilt is a brutal stab, I'd say it sort of precludes Finesse attacks. As for the weaker characters, they're more likely to be unable to wrench the blade out if it gets stuck.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, since using To The Hilt is a brutal stab, I'd say it sort of precludes Finesse attacks. As for the weaker characters, they're more likely to be unable to wrench the blade out if it gets stuck.

The thing is, *anyone* could benefit from leaving their weapon stabbed into someone. Why can't a strong person stick the dagger in and just let go?

I don't yet understand why it is easier for weaker characters to use rather than strong characters

 

[slaughterj]

Well, since using To The Hilt is a brutal stab, I'd say it sort of precludes Finesse attacks. As for the weaker characters, they're more likely to be unable to wrench the blade out if it gets stuck.

The thing is, *anyone* could benefit from leaving their weapon stabbed into someone. Why can't a strong person stick the dagger in and just let go?

I don't yet understand why it is easier for weaker characters to use rather than strong characters

Exactly (one of) my point(s).

 

[slaughterj]

Well, since using To The Hilt is a brutal stab, I'd say it sort of precludes Finesse attacks.

I get what you're saying, but I can easily visualize many other situations, e.g., the thief slamming his blade to the hilt when aiming for the armpit - harder to do, sure, but that's the point of finesse attackers, harder to hit the desired location, but great if they do...

 

[Yokiboy]

That seems like an odd limitation...how about instead, it doesn't stick unless damage rolled exceeds your STR bonus + DR.

Great house rule, consider it addopted IMC. The nice feature with it being Str mod + DR is that it will be harder to get the weapon stuck the more armor your opponent has, which is a much better limitation than the former one of your opponent having to be unarmored. (Although perhaps it should be Str mod + (DR x2), as it has to penetrate the armor on the back of the person as well in the case of human opponents.)

The rule doesn't make sense in general though, why would it be easier to have your blade get stuck in to the hilt if you're weak. Now how to address that... :? The threshold should be set in some other way, perhaps if the damage is over the opponent's Fort save rating it gets stuck - just thinking out loud though.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Yokiboy]

I get what you're saying, but I can easily visualize many other situations, e.g., the thief slamming his blade to the hilt when aiming for the armpit - harder to do, sure, but that's the point of finesse attackers, harder to hit the desired location, but great if they do...

You could use the house rule someone suggested, that any time you roll maximum damage on an attack, the weapon is stuck. This will get messy with those d4 damage weapons though. :lol:

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Taharqa]

That seems like an odd limitation...how about instead, it doesn't stick unless damage rolled exceeds your STR bonus + DR.

The rule doesn't make sense in general though, why would it be easier to have your blade get stuck in to the hilt if you're weak. Now how to address that... :? The threshold should be set in some other way, perhaps if the damage is over the opponent's Fort save rating it gets stuck - just thinking out loud though.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

I think that the designers had in mind that getting your weapon stuck is not necessarily the desired outcome. You do after all lose your weapon. The opponent can also remove the weapon and thus avoid the continued damage, although this is a full round action.

Whatever the intentions of the designer, the manuever does seem more beneficial if you leave the weapon stuck. Maybe characters who could pull it out should get the option to leave it in. That way a strong character has the best options, while a weak character is going to lose his blade.

 

[Yokiboy]

I think that the designers had in mind that getting your weapon stuck is not necessarily the desired outcome. You do after all lose your weapon. The opponent can also remove the weapon and thus avoid the continued damage, although this is a full round action.

Whatever the intentions of the designer, the manuever does seem more beneficial if you leave the weapon stuck. Maybe characters who could pull it out should get the option to leave it in. That way a strong character has the best options, while a weak character is going to lose his blade.

Yes Taharqa, but even with the punishment of being robbed of your weapon, why is it easier getting your weapon stuck the weaker you are? Or are we to pretend that any time you perform To the Hilt, the weapon actually slides in all the way to the hilt, but you might still roll a 1 and make next to no damage.

Perhaps a requirement should be that you do a full Power Attack, i.e. deduct all your BAB to do as much damage as possible. That seems more reasonable. Even then ramming the weapon in To the Hilt should rely on the damage done, and that +1 damage bonus hardly stimulates that.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[slaughterj]

That seems like an odd limitation...how about instead, it doesn't stick unless damage rolled exceeds your STR bonus + DR.

The rule doesn't make sense in general though, why would it be easier to have your blade get stuck in to the hilt if you're weak. Now how to address that... :? The threshold should be set in some other way, perhaps if the damage is over the opponent's Fort save rating it gets stuck - just thinking out loud though.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

I think that the designers had in mind that getting your weapon stuck is not necessarily the desired outcome.

I get what you're saying, but surely they don't think that everyone will like the +1 damage so much as to risk that if they don't want their weapon stuck. If it was intended to *potentially* penalize people, then it should have been a result of a particular action, e.g., successful crit on a piercing weapon, that might end up leaving the weapon stuck, rather than an option the PC gets to choose.

 

[Yokiboy]

Your weapon sticks in your opponent if you roll higher damage on your weapons damage die/dice (ignoring all bonuses to damage, just counting the dice's outcome), than your Str mod. That means if your a monster of a hulk, figthing with a 2-handed weapon (Str mod x 1 1/2), you might have a very hard time getting your weapon stuck. :?

Honestly, I think I see where they are going here. The rule works for me now, as is. The maneuver To the Hilt simulates you trying to plunge the weapon into your opponent with all the might you have. Therefore you get a +1 to damage, but with the drawback that your weapon might stick in your opponent.

I think that's fine, just had to read the maneuver half a dozen times though.

Is the +1 Damage bonus enough to entice people to try the maneuver? Actually, why am I asking... I game with Power Gamers and they'll die for another +1 to damage. :lol:

TTFN,

Yokiboy