Hunting Packs - Have you tried them?

[ShopKeepJon]

How many of you have actually tried the Centauri Hunting Packs?
How did they impact your actually played game (both the original printed rules and the new clarification)?

I've set up a game with my Centauri for next week, but by that time it will probably be all over but the shouting...

- ShopKeepJon

 

[ShopKeepJon]

On a related note...

When I first read the rule in P&P I thought it applied only to squadrons of the same type of ship (all Vorchans, all Demos, etc.).

I thought it sounded great since you could ensure that a bunch of short ranged weapons systems would be effective in a squadron.
... then I realized that there was no such restriction...

I also thought that the Hunting pack would remain together for the entire game, thus providing a serious limiting effect. I was fooled by the word pack, since "pack" implies a more permanent collection.
... then I realized that there was no such restriction...

In your opinion, would either (or both) of these restrictions make the Hunting Packs a more playable rule?

- ShopKeepJon

 

[lastbesthope]

Have you downloaded the updated version of the Hunting Pack RUle from the P&P page on the website?

LBH

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Have you downloaded the updated version of the Hunting Pack RUle from the P&P page on the website?

LBH

Yes, I have.
That's why I asked for accounts of both the original printed rules and the new clarification.
I won't be able to actually try out the hunting packs until next week. I'd like hear about some actual game experiences rather than knee-jerk reactions (since I have enough of those myself...).

As for my second post, when I first read the rule (skimming through the book before sitting down for a full read-through) I thought that the rule only allowed single ship type squadrons (no mixing of ship classes in the squadron) that couldn't be voluntarily broken up. This seemed flavorful and not very broken.

Upon re-reading the rule (carefully this time) I found that I was mistaken. However, I now think that my original (mistaken) reading of the rule would have made for a much more interesting and balanced rule.

I was hoping for other players opinions...

ShopKeepJon

 

[Da Boss]

Clanger and Diseal have tried them - I thnk the Drakh got beaten both times (even with Diseal refusining to use the optimum Centauri sqaudrons)

I should be facing one tonight - but again its not optium set up as 5 pt battle and only max 8 ships - if my opponent is happy to allow me to give away his fleet selection for the tourney I will post a report.

my reaction is that they are too good for an already good race. The limitations are too little compared to the advantages. Given that we Centauri also recieved a boost witht he excellent Amar carrier..............

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Thanks for the reply.
I look forward to hearing how your game plays out.

Speaking as one who plays Centauri, I too think that this is a little too good.
I just want to give the rule a chance on the gaming table before deciding that it's broken...

Of course, I also "attempt" to play Abbai. Maybe this is just Mongoose's way of apologizing to me for the Kotha "fighter"...

ShopKeepJon

 

[H]

unnoficial abbai fighters in the Juyaie supplement. um, err, well, a bomber anyway...

 

[MongooseMatt]

Of course, I also "attempt" to play Abbai.

Nothing wrong with the Abbai - just ask Tristan

 

[katadder]

well he did spam 15 ships

but agreed, I do like the abbai and run quite a successful abbai fleet at all PLs

 

[ShopKeepJon]

well he did spam 15 ships

but agreed, I do like the abbai and run quite a successful abbai fleet at all PLs

Don't get me wrong.
I have been "somewhat" successful with the Abbai.
(And the changes to the Bimith are much appreciated...)

I just feel that they need something more to make them stand out as a unique and interesting fleet. (When compared to the others.)

Still, I must like something about them, since I keep coming back to them...

ShopKeepJon

 

[Triggy]

well he did spam 15 ships

but agreed, I do like the abbai and run quite a successful abbai fleet at all PLs

Hey, that fleet has still proven successful even when people do know what's coming!

And also, I'd like to think I get a little credit for being the first tournament player to take the initiative spam fleet and take it to the logical extreme This was before anyone else had really tried anything so severe.

Anyway, just because you've never beaten me Steve

 

[katadder]

only played you once, my for fun 1st ed vorchans against your competitive teshlans that had experience to force rerolls and came fairly close even then i think using the same ships in 2e rules the teshlans wouldnt have much chance but then no SAP beams anymore
but didnt have much chance.
anyway we killed you as grand admiral, and i think the fleet I had the day you had your swarm (which as you know i was also building) could have beat them due to superior speed, agility and weapons range.

 

[Triggy]

Ah, any excuse

We never did get that game in Signs and Portents... still I ended up with one of the best games I've ever played instead as I came back from the brink of disaster against Matt!

I see you've removed from your signiature about the 9 out of 16 20-0 victories... good to know I added another 20-0 to the tally

 

[Da Boss]

presently playing the Shadows vs Centauri game

Centauri had hunting pack of

Sullust, Morgrath, 2 Darkner and Maximus

couple of turns of firing nearly killed my Shadow ship but it held and the pack is history - although a Asteroid field was needed to cover its retreat limping backwards.

its was a very nasty combination of a lot of ships firing at way more than their normal range.......

something the Centauri needed

 

[MongooseMatt]

Ah, any excuse

I smell an S&P Grudge Match

 

[ShopKeepJon]

OK, so I managed to move a few figures around last night (not full games, just enough to test things out...).

I have a few observations.

• 1. The increased range alpha strike ability of a hunting pack is very powerful.
  2. There wasn't much practical difference between a pair of three ship packs and a single six ship pack.
  3. It didn't really hurt the fleet much to lose initiative sinks for the first turn or two. The ability to break up the packs after their initial strike(s) mitigated most of that penalty.

Overall, I like the idea of the hunting packs. They have the right feel for Centauri. They just feel too good for game balance as presented (even with the new clarifications).

We tried something that seemed to keep the basic idea of the Hunting Pack intact, but limited its abuse.

Instead of targeting a single enemy, each turn a single ship of the Pack is designated as the leader. For each weapon system that the leader fires, all other ships in the Pack may fire any identical weapon systems at the same target with its range increased by 50%.
(N.b. Light ballistic torpedoes are not identical to ballistic torpedoes.)

This seems to limit abuses nicely and keeps a good feel...

(I'd have loved to come up with a way to force them to stay together as a squadron for the whole game, but that becomes far too complicated once any of the squadron starts taking damage...)

Let me know what you think of this.

ShopKeepJon

 

[Da Boss]

yep you seem to ahve outlined the problems - its is quite flavourful but way too powerful -espwith certain combinations - Elutarian with Demos / Sullust and you get your in sinks back very quickly by breaking off elements (eg Elutarian on turn two as its slower and reloading)

nice idea - be intersting to see how it works

I did wonder about having the lead ship have to be a Scout..............

 

[ShopKeepJon]

nice idea - be intersting to see how it works

I did wonder about having the lead ship have to be a Scout..............

Please try it and let me know how it works for you.
Being able to play at all last night was a fluke. I won't be able to do anything more with it until next week...

ShopKeepJon

 

[Ripple]

I like the idea of limiting to identical weapons. That limits the worst abuses nicely. The super sized squadrons I still don't like, and seems out of character for the game.

Did the centauri really need to major boosts (extra range and extra ships in the squadron) seems to me you could have gone one or the other.

 

[Da Boss]

nice idea - be intersting to see how it works

I did wonder about having the lead ship have to be a Scout..............

Please try it and let me know how it works for you.
Being able to play at all last night was a fluke. I won't be able to do anything more with it until next week...

ShopKeepJon

I'll try but can't get a game till at least Wednesday and I think trying out tourney fleets so not best - I'll see what I cna do though