How to stop Gaim Swarms?

[Lone Gunman]

So, reading throught the S&P article and looking at the fleet list, as Drazi and ISA player I don't see any possibilty to stop Gaim. The photon bomb is not my greatest concern, but as the article said 108 fighters as crewd missiles. Who should I stop that? 108 AD of SAP, DD, Precise is enought to even eliminate any battle level fleet. It is not possible to use fighters as a countermeasure due to photon bombs so taking them is a waste and even shooting his ships is nonsense as whe they should explode most of their fighters will be launched mauling my ships.

So does anyone have a clue how to stop Gaim swarms without Narn Emines or Missile cruisers full of Anti-Fighter missiles?

 

[katadder]

well obviously kill the carrier, its only hull 4. another thing is take carriers of your own but dont launch until you can dogfight them that turn (fighters launch in the end phase). if they are as missiles their dogfight is +0 so with even a starfury you can tie up quite a few.
ISA do have plenty of af weapons, just have to use your speed and manouvrability to hit the fighters with those. after all you are faster than the fighters.
also one shot missiles. 108 fighters is the equivalent of firing 10 sagis for 2 turns. think of it in those terms and its not so bad.

 

[Triggy]

One simple suggestion would be to shoot the Klikkitaks. Yes there are lots but you only need to thin the numbers. Don't forget, they are the "guns" for a large part of the Gaim fleet and how many other guns do you get to shoot down before they are targetted at you?

 

[Joe_Dracos]

I think your focusing too much on the sheer volume of fighter flights that can be converted into crewed missiles. Most battle level ships have hull 6 (especially Drazi) so taking a Storm falcon seems manditory for your drazi at Raid or higher. You can also use a hand full of Guardhawks to keep them off of the Storm falcon and from what I understand to have that many fighters the Gaim player would have to take a large number of Queen ships (carriers) so they are not going to be too terribly well armed and your Stormfalcon should be able to handle them well enough. Those fighters are going to be an annoyance, not a game winning tactic. Your ISA would have a more difficult time due to crew losses more then damage delt. White stars get to dodge then all the damage is halved, so it will take a lot of Gaim fighters to take out one Whitestar.

 

[Da Boss]

Remeber also your antifighter (if you have it) will kill some, the crewed missiles has already stated don't dodge well and are vulnerable to good fighters - the Gaim ships have little else than the energy bombs so are an odd fleet to play with / against.

The ISA / Drazi can take allied Escort ships - The Hallik is nasty / carriers - an Avenger / Brakiri raid level Carrier are good.

 

[Shadow Queen]

Anti-fighter missiles

 

[Shadow Queen]

I forgot Nuke 'em

 

[Lone Gunman]

I forgot Nuke 'em

I'll try that.

 

[Silvereye]

The photon bomb is not my greatest concern, but as the article said 108 fighters as crewd missiles. Who should I stop that? 108 AD of SAP, DD, Precise is enought to even eliminate any battle level fleet.

It is going to take time to assemble the 108 fighters on the field, and in this instance those fighters will represent the main firepower element of the Gaim fleet. They are also only 1 shot (exploding if they hit or miss) and even limited duration I beleive. With no Fleet Carrier roll for the transformed Klikkies to be recovered allowed.

Those fighters are going to be an annoyance, not a game winning tactic.

In this instance the fighters should possibly be a big big part of the game winning tactic, as that strategy was what the fleet was built around.

It is not possible to use fighters as a countermeasure due to photon bombs so taking them is a waste and even shooting his ships is nonsense as whe they should explode most of their fighters will be launched mauling my ships.

Careful use of fighters should allow you to take on the Klikkies. Remember other articles (and Kattader above) have said the fighter deployment now takes place during the end phase. So time it right and you can launch your fighters and pounce on the Gaim fighters and tie them up in a dogfight before they are hit by a photon bomb barrage (providing of course you still cannot shoot into a dogfight involving your fighters).

So does anyone have a clue how to stop Gaim swarms without Narn Emines or Missile cruisers full of Anti-Fighter missiles?

I'd definitely be hefting the Narn's 1 shot AP, Triple Damage e-mines at the carriers (especially if they are hull 4) instead of Fleet Carrier recoverable Klikkies.

My take for ISA and Drazi (assuming they play like 1e), find ships that are faster than the Klikkies (probably very easy with White Stars and Drazi) and just speed through the fighter line to the carriers. Or lurk just outside of their ramming range and shoot them before heading through at the carriers. Use hyperspace reinforcements if available - remembering fighters can be deployed in hyperspace. Against a Hull 6 ship the Klikkies will be hitting on 4+ (50/50) so to statistically kill a hull 6 outright you need to throw a number of kamikaze Klikkies at the target equal to its starting damage (which could be a lot of them).

Not having seen 2e, I have no idea if these ideas would work. But I get the feeling a bit of practice will make fighting the Gaim horde no different to having to figure out how to Stealth bust a Minbari fleet, or pin down the Shadows long enough to shoot at them.

 

[Shadow Queen]

Sheriden uses Nukes 3 times in the B5 timeline and no rules

 

[Jybbah]

Remeber also your antifighter (if you have it) will kill some, the crewed missiles has already stated don't dodge well and are vulnerable to good fighters

Really? Crewed missiels impact befor Anti-Fighter-trait works (if i read the S&P correctly)

CU

 

[No. 1 Bear]

Sheriden uses Nukes 3 times in the B5 timeline and no rules

I know this upset me too. But back to the topic just shoot them everyone of themm Take many hull 6 ships and adaptive armour makes it better.

 

[Da Boss]

Will have to check but I thought it was - they ignore interceptors but impact after Antifghter has fired

 

[Jybbah]

In any End Phase, a Klikkita flight may overload its reactors, transforming it into the Klikkitak crewed missile. All you need do then is simply fly these beauties into contact with an enemy ship. You will have to brave any Anti-Fighter defences but these attacks take place during the Movement Phase (which will lead to some new tactics being discovered, I promise!). Each flight will then become a 1 Attack Dice, Double Damage, Precise, Super AP weapon before its demise – against ships that have been softened by the photon bomb barrage, that can be devastating!

OK, thats from the S&P (P.62)

My english is not good enough, befor or after anti-fighter?

CU

 

[Da Boss]

You will have to brave any Anti-Fighter defences but these attacks take place during the Movement Phase (which will lead to some new tactics being discovered, I promise!).

CU

No probs - its after

 

[B_Steele]

Sheriden uses Nukes 3 times in the B5 timeline and no rules

Really? Go back and check out the Earth-Minbari War sourcebook....I think you missed something.

Bry

 

[Da Boss]

I figure they mean 2nd Ed

 

[Greg Smith]

The thing to remember is that you can only get a handful of fighters into contact with a single in any one turn, these can then be thinned down by anti-fighter, and then they still have to hit - against a hull 6 ship that is only a 50/50 chance.

The biggest benefit against Gaim will be Escorts.

 

[Lone Gunman]

I can see your point, but 108 fighters at raid is a bit too much imo. You cannot stop most with af. And what about battle-level games, how many fighters can Gaim bring to such engagements? 300+ ?

 

[katadder]

have to bring multiple carriers for that which means not many queens. in a balanced 5 pt battle force i had 116 fights and 54 breaching pods.