How much tonnage does a Barracks require per Marine

[Walker]

In High Guard and the HG SRD, it says 2 Tons per Marine. However, all references to Barracks on ships in Traders and Gunboats says 1 Ton. interestingly, none of the Capitol Ship examples in HG seem to use Barracks at all. They all use staterooms.

The 1 Ton requirement seems to make more sense to me, otherwise why not just use doouble occupancy staterooms instead of Barracks.

It would be nice to know one way or the other.

Note: In the end it is ultimately my decision as I know, but, if there was a clear intent, I'd like to factor it into my thinking. :wink:

 

[rust]

Barracks with 1 dton per Marine would still be quite comfortable. In GURPS
Traveller a Bunkroom of 4 dtons holds up to 16 Marines (depending on the
technology level), giving each of them just 0.25 dtons.

 

[AndrewW]

In High Guard and the HG SRD, it says 2 Tons per Marine. However, all references to Barracks on ships in Traders and Gunboats says 1 Ton. interestingly, none of the Capitol Ship examples in HG seem to use Barracks at all. They all use staterooms.

The 1 Ton requirement seems to make more sense to me, otherwise why not just use doouble occupancy staterooms instead of Barracks.

Well, barracks are still cheaper then staterooms. Aslan ships use the High Guard amount of 2 tons per.

 

[lucasdigital]

In High Guard and the HG SRD, it says 2 Tons per Marine. However, all references to Barracks on ships in Traders and Gunboats says 1 Ton. interestingly, none of the Capitol Ship examples in HG seem to use Barracks at all. They all use staterooms.

The 1 Ton requirement seems to make more sense to me, otherwise why not just use doouble occupancy staterooms instead of Barracks.

Well, barracks are still cheaper then staterooms. Aslan ships use the High Guard amount of 2 tons per.

That's interesting, I created a ship that used barracks on my first time through the High Guard rules. Looking at my plans, I'd got a 52-ton barracks accomodating 32 occupants. That works out at about 1.5 tons per man, which I think looks reasonable...

(using double bunks..ya can't have barracks without bunks!)

 

[Walker]

Barracks with 1 dton per Marine would still be quite comfortable. In GURPS
Traveller a Bunkroom of 4 dtons holds up to 16 Marines (depending on the
technology level), giving each of them just 0.25 dtons.

Hmm... 4 times as much space would seem quite comfortable, I imagine. A quarter dton feels way too small to me.

 

[Walker]

Well, barracks are still cheaper then staterooms. Aslan ships use the High Guard amount of 2 tons per.

Ahhh... I got so wrapped up in the discrepency between the size in the two books, i missed the price difference.

 

[Walker]

That's interesting, I created a ship that used barracks on my first time through the High Guard rules. Looking at my plans, I'd got a 52-ton barracks accomodating 32 occupants. That works out at about 1.5 tons per man, which I think looks reasonable...

(using double bunks..ya can't have barracks without bunks!)

I like the 1.5 dton size. maybe I will go 1.5 for capital ships and 1 for Ships under 2000 dtons.

Makes service on a capital ship seem like cushier duty than small ships.

 

[lucasdigital]

I like the 1.5 dton size. maybe I will go 1.5 for capital ships and 1 for Ships under 2000 dtons.

Makes service on a capital ship seem like cushier duty than small ships.

Yeah, I always figured that on capital ships, the odd displacement ton here and there is a lot less valuable than on small ships. There again, in my design, that's two freshers per 32 occupants - they better hope the cooks know what they're doing... ;-)

 

[Ishmael]

don't forget the volume needed to store their gear and weapons and stuff.

 

[lucasdigital]

don't forget the volume needed to store their gear and weapons and stuff.

I tend to match up each barracks with an armory, and if possible, a briefing room. If you need a barracks to account for all the space requirements of a soldier, probably 1.5 tons falls a bit short.

 

[RandyT0001]

There again, in my design, that's two freshers per 32 occupants...

Looks like those 1 dton freshers can service at most two individuals as a time so let's do some math. One fresher per 16 soldiers serving two at a time and a shower takes five minutes (some of the time is used to enter/exit the shower and arrange toiletries - this time is really too short for proper hygenic bathing) therefore the troops will have to spend forty minutes bathing before assembly. I doubt the sargeant is going to wait that long for them to fall in.

Let's do a bit of quick research and see some modern and recent historical barracks.
http://www.bragg.army.mil/DPW-HSG/images/1x1standardfloorplan.png
http://www.bragg.army.mil/DPW-HSG/images/1x1InterimFloorPlan.png
http://www.bragg.army.mil/DPW-HSG/images/UnrenovatedRollingPinFloorPlan.png
http://www.bragg.army.mil/DPW-HSG/images/22and4ManFloorPlan.png
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1999/ns99052.pdf (Appendix I)
and the late 1930's through 1940's
http://www.nps.gov/goga/historyculture/upload/Cronkhite%20Historic%20Furnishings%20Report.pdf (nice look at lots of WW2 military life stuff)

Anyway make of it what you will.

 

[rust]

The current standard over here is four to six soldiers (two or three bunk
beds) to a room, with two rooms sharing a fresher / shower room.

 

[Gaidheal]

My 'Halls' when I was at Uni in Scotland were two bathrooms to seven people with a communal kitchen / living room which could just about seat everyone at the same time so long as noone was trying to cook. The bedrooms themselves were about six foot by ten foot by twelve foot (quite a high ceiling).

This wasn't especially uncomfortable, even spending large amounts of time indoors and we managed to get quite a bit of stuff into our rooms.

Just throwing that out there...

 

[cbrunish]

I have been in WWII barracks that would probably place 2 soldiers per 2dtons (bunk beds with 2 wall lockers). And there were two cadre rooms that prob would be 1 soldier per 2dtons (one bed, wall locker, and room for a desk and folding chair).

But then I took a tour of an old sub in Pittsburgh that had the sailors sleeping on the torpedos! :shock: And the officer cabins weren't much to look at. Amazing what those WWII vets were able to do!

 

[Infojunky]

Well, those are nice, but they are buildings.....

Military berthing on USN vessels is quite a bit tighter.

Figure approximately 6 berths to the dTon. in coffin racks or at least when I was serving, figure that has gone down to 4 berths per dTon with new design racks.

That is just the sleeping area.

In the berthing area that I lived briefly in had about a 2 dton lounge for 200 some odd men. and maybe 2 dtons of hygiene space.... That being 6 showers a similar number of sinks and urinals and 8 or 10 commodes...

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Regarding Lavatory-to-Person Ratios:

Modern airliners (the big ones) use about 50:1 people per Lav (for flights of less than 1 day).

Ohio Class Submarines have about 165 people on them and have 8 showers, so that is about 20:1 people per shower. There were almost always lines.

20:1 would probably work for Barracks style accomodations and Steerage class passengers (if you use that type of thing).

 

[atpollard]

The Florida Plumbing Code, based on the on the International Plumbing Code lists the following Minimum Required Fixtures:

For Residential Dormitories, Sororities, Fraternities and Boarding Houses, provide 1 water closet per 10 people, 1 lavatory (sink) per 10 people, 1 bathtub/shower per 8 people, 1 Drinking Fountain per 100 people and 1 service sink.

Institutions for Residential Care (like Nursing Homes) use the same minimum figures.

Reformatories, Detention Centers and Correctional Centers require 1 water closet, 1 lavatory (sink) and 1 bathtub/shower per 15 people.

Hotels, Motels and Transient Boarding Houses require 1 water closet, 1 lavatory (sink) and 1 bathtub/shower per “guestroom”.

These are the only classifications applicable to living there for a week or more (like a starship).

 

[Infojunky]

The real question is do we break down life-support/quarters into it's constituent parts?

Say 0.25 dTons per person for just the machinery


Acceleration couch 0.25 dTon
Small cabin/bunk 1 dTon
Cabin 2 dTon
Stateroom 3 dTon

Fresher 0.5 dton each, with the number apportioned to the number of people and the standard they are travelling in.

All of this also has a associated tonnage devoted to access space/ lounges etc....

Just some ball park ideas.

 

[rust]

The GURPS Traveller equivalents at TL 10 would be:

Full Life System (provides air, water and food):
system core 5 cf, plus 5 cf per person

Bunk: 100 cf per person

Cabin: 500 cf for 2 persons

Bunks plus life support for 10 persons would be 1,055 cf (2.11 dtons)
Cabins plus life support for 10 persons would be 2,555 cf (5.11 dtons)

 

[BP]

I think for starships barracks - one might consider hot-bunking - i.e. 1 shift comes in, other goes out...

yet - given ships for long term deployments (from 'home'), a lot more space could be consumed for crew and soldiers (especially large capital ships)

One might consider entertainment space and importantly mess space (unless the food is all instana-meals in tiny packets or pills ) as well as freshers, storage, halls, life support, etc.

Then there is the medical bay, and triage (for larger vessels) and possibly stores (for consumer goods), barber (and body art) facilities, etc. Of course, entertainment could extent to sensorariums, holodecks, sports arenas, swimming tanks, parks, spas...

Aside from this, machine shops, maintenance bays, 'dry' docks are missing as specific design elements...

Then there could be training facilities and research labs...

Of course, many of these things can be taken care of without large areas of ship via technology (virtual sports/shoping/training etc.).

I use Traveller shipbuilding rules as guidelines only - specifically sticking only to major game balancing mechanics (Jump/Maneuver/Power/Fuel). Cost and tonnage should vary by tech level, location, and design goal (utilitarian versus luxury).