How much can a robot lift?
- Thread starter Infojunky
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Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
In CT "Apparent Strength" was determined by dividing the chassis volume in litres by 20, and adding the strength modifier from the Appendage Table for each appendage the robot has.
Lord High Munchkin said:
Yes there is that, but I am trying to figure out what is actually broken with the Mongoose book, Next I move on to the 13Man book....
One of the reasons I didn't start with the CT Robots book is the there isn't a clean conversion to the Hull and structure system of MgT.
But back to the original question it's how to figure lifting by the rules in the TMB as robots don't have end...
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
What about STR + Hull (page 4 has hull modifiers)?
It could also be simply based on STR. I'd rule depending on circumstances, but likely go for STR as that is determined by the type and quality of the manipulators.
It could also be simply based on STR. I'd rule depending on circumstances, but likely go for STR as that is determined by the type and quality of the manipulators.
Infojunky said:
A robot should easily be able to lift 6 times it's STR, assuming it's designed for lifting. By that I mean the materials it is constructed of allow for such extra weight (high tensile frame vs. say lightweight aluminum), it's design allows it the proper stability to do so, and it has the inherent capability to do so (such as using hydraulics vs. a lighter-weight type of mechanism for lifting).
A $300 pallet jack can lift 5,500 lbs off the floor. That's the designed weight limit for normal operations, so you can figure there is probably another 10% in there somewhere before you stress the unit where it might fail.
So yeah, a mechanical lifter should be able to easily outlift a person.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Remember the hydraulic manipulator option that gives +4 Strength and –2 Dexterity.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Infojunky said:
It doesn't necessarily translate. The figure for humans is based on human anatomy. Robots will have their own unique anatomy based on design. A robot may have strong "arms" but a weak "leg structure", etc., etc.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Infojunky said:
Yes, yes it does. {see your question on, "missing something?".}
I just told you what you were missing in your calculation. You may be dismayed by the fact I brought up, or you might stil not realize that it is important but it is VERY pertinent. Facts aren't always popular nor, appreciated I understand.
Further illustration. A robot may have a pulley system with a very low power electric winch. It's structure might allow it to lift 1000lbs. It's listed str might only be 3...
sideranautae said:
Yet again a miss....
sideranautae said:
I asked a question about an internal rules mechanic, not for a description that misses the point of the question. Yes, we can handwave that a robot can lift any amount with any strength by the suitable application of mechanical advantage. But even that does answer the explicit question.
@Infojunky:
In order to answer the question you'll have to divide up the spectrum of possibilities. You might have, for sake of argument, light, medium and heavy chassis. Light robots would be household or very specific use robots, designed to lift light loads. Think R2-D2 or C3-PO: robots that were quite useful as long as you weren't expecting them to do much physical work. A STR of say 5 might be applicable, and their lifting capacity might be double their STR, or 10.
A medium might be equivalent to a human (though probably greater, since you can design a robot with superior capabilities over flesh). This type could have a STR of say 7, and be able to lift 5-6 times (35 to 42) its STR.
And heavies, well, heavies are designed to carry spectacular loads. A STR of F (16) could be normal. Assisted STR of F is possible in battle dress, so there's no reason why a robot should not be able to match that. I would probably stick with the same 5-6 times it's weight (80 to 96) as the medium. There should be exemptions, such as robots designed specifically to lift large loads. Then it would be more likely equipped with anti-grav and a skid, sling, or lifting of sorts to move that.
And this gets back to what I mentioned earlier - the design of the bot itself. A human-sized humanoid framed one should be limited to the same capabilities as a Marine in battle-dress. It's essentially the same exact thing, without the armor and sensors. But if you made it into a tread-based one, with a much larger base, it should be able to lift more because it can support more and transfer the weight to another structure - just like other equipment does.
Though this is getting into a lot of potential 'ifs', and possibly tables to account for the frame of the robot. I'm not sure I'd want to have to reference a bazillion places to build a robot. But I'd also like some design system that makes sense so I can easily scale up, or down, to build the bot of my dreams. No, not THOSE kinds of dreams... sheesh!
In order to answer the question you'll have to divide up the spectrum of possibilities. You might have, for sake of argument, light, medium and heavy chassis. Light robots would be household or very specific use robots, designed to lift light loads. Think R2-D2 or C3-PO: robots that were quite useful as long as you weren't expecting them to do much physical work. A STR of say 5 might be applicable, and their lifting capacity might be double their STR, or 10.
A medium might be equivalent to a human (though probably greater, since you can design a robot with superior capabilities over flesh). This type could have a STR of say 7, and be able to lift 5-6 times (35 to 42) its STR.
And heavies, well, heavies are designed to carry spectacular loads. A STR of F (16) could be normal. Assisted STR of F is possible in battle dress, so there's no reason why a robot should not be able to match that. I would probably stick with the same 5-6 times it's weight (80 to 96) as the medium. There should be exemptions, such as robots designed specifically to lift large loads. Then it would be more likely equipped with anti-grav and a skid, sling, or lifting of sorts to move that.
And this gets back to what I mentioned earlier - the design of the bot itself. A human-sized humanoid framed one should be limited to the same capabilities as a Marine in battle-dress. It's essentially the same exact thing, without the armor and sensors. But if you made it into a tread-based one, with a much larger base, it should be able to lift more because it can support more and transfer the weight to another structure - just like other equipment does.
Though this is getting into a lot of potential 'ifs', and possibly tables to account for the frame of the robot. I'm not sure I'd want to have to reference a bazillion places to build a robot. But I'd also like some design system that makes sense so I can easily scale up, or down, to build the bot of my dreams. No, not THOSE kinds of dreams... sheesh!
phavoc & sideranautae Guys, I get your points, Honestly if I rewrite the robot rules I am seriously going to talk those issues into consideration. Right now i am beating on the rules as written to find both their flaws and the missing bits in the rules.
On a construction note max lift probably should be limited to the max transport load of the chosen running gear.
On a construction note max lift probably should be limited to the max transport load of the chosen running gear.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Thinking about it I seem to remember (but I might be wrong) that there are kilogram values in CT 'Striker' as to what a few basic arms can lift. I think it was in a chart.
Someone might be able to check.
Someone might be able to check.
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Just glancing through this thread and have a thought, don't know how helpful it is...
The max carrying capacity for a bot may be the max capability of the weakest part.
For example,
- a bot with a strong sturdy tank like tread base but a week lifting arm or
- a bot with a very strong lifting arm but it has a less stable two legged walking base for being aesthetically pleasing to its owner or to be nimble and walk up stairs and not designed for strength
both would have less carrying capability than a bot with a med base and medium strength arm
Some system where the different styles of "legs" and "arms" get a strength rating but the bots overall str is only as good as the weakest part seams to make sense but then...
Note that a rally strong appendage or portion of a bot might still have it's own capability
- a strong hand crushing a human hand breaking the bones with ease even though the bot overall can barely carry as much as the man due to other structural concerns.
- a sturdy base designed to carry that is loaded by a man or other bots need not have strong arms
Just some thoughts
The max carrying capacity for a bot may be the max capability of the weakest part.
For example,
- a bot with a strong sturdy tank like tread base but a week lifting arm or
- a bot with a very strong lifting arm but it has a less stable two legged walking base for being aesthetically pleasing to its owner or to be nimble and walk up stairs and not designed for strength
both would have less carrying capability than a bot with a med base and medium strength arm
Some system where the different styles of "legs" and "arms" get a strength rating but the bots overall str is only as good as the weakest part seams to make sense but then...
Note that a rally strong appendage or portion of a bot might still have it's own capability
- a strong hand crushing a human hand breaking the bones with ease even though the bot overall can barely carry as much as the man due to other structural concerns.
- a sturdy base designed to carry that is loaded by a man or other bots need not have strong arms
Just some thoughts
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Personally that's why I think it might be simply based on STR with the type and quality of the manipulators making some difference... but STR + Hull could be used in situations where whole chassis lifting is required.
That said, in previous versions of 'Traveller' robot lifting capacity was not an issue... robots could lift what their function required (i.e. Bender can always bend, that's what he was designed to do).
That said, in previous versions of 'Traveller' robot lifting capacity was not an issue... robots could lift what their function required (i.e. Bender can always bend, that's what he was designed to do).
