How many tons is Ceres?

[Anonymous]

Lousy ship, fantastic massive base of operations as the surface is a 100 km mantle of ice (200 million cubic km fresh water). It could just be a facility for fresh water mining but can have the capacity to support a central point for asteroid belt mining as a huge source of fuel for ships. With a surface gravity of 0.028g and escape velocity of 0.51 km/sec, it would be excellent as a ship downport.
Oh, and there might be life in the liquid water under the mantle.

I agree that low gravity would be ideal for handling cargo. I'd probably want reduced gravity in my cargo bay to allow loads to be more easily moved.

I suspect the real benefit of low escape velocity would be 'cargo delivery' mass driver cannons. Load up a can and shoot it to the next planet / orbital intercept with a freighter. Not sure what would happen if you miss though - you couldn't put the can into orbit from a gun.

Odd that Traveller doesn't really have a dedicated cargo mass driver. Did Mongoose 2nd add it?

Traveller ships would ignore escape velocity as it only applies to objects not under continuous thrust. As long as you can take off, you can climb away at constant, walking speed so long as your engine continues to run.

 

[Reynard]

Mass driver cargo delivery systems are great for short hauls such as Luna to Earth orbit but beyond that tracking could become a nightmare especially for high ship volume. Also, speed can't be very high if the recipient wants to catch the load close to the terminal point. Having a mining hub on Ceres with smelting, foundry and even some factory facilities would allow refined products to be transported cheaper while waste products can be ejected into the belt at no harm compared to dusting the upper atmosphere around Earth. Fuel? A good portion of Ceres is fuel.

And don't forget to run an Outland scenario there.

 

[AndrewW]

Odd that Traveller doesn't really have a dedicated cargo mass driver. Did Mongoose 2nd add it?

Throw and catch system: In order to save space on some mining stations they mount a mass accelerator to throw ton after ton of mined metals across space.

 

[Reynard]

From the latest High Guard document, "On average, assume that it takes one day per million credits to build a spacecraft at an average commercial shipyard." Anyone want to hazard a guess on Ceres' launch date rounded off to years?

 

[Torbyne]

From the latest High Guard document, "On average, assume that it takes one day per million credits to build a spacecraft at an average commercial shipyard." Anyone want to hazard a guess on Ceres' launch date rounded off to years?

I wouldnt think the CERES project would be handled by an average shipyard though.

 

[Condottiere]

It will be a work in progress.

 

[Reynard]

Like the pyramids of Giza. In a couple decades, they look marvelous.

I could see Ceres built more like a space station except bigger, more like a spread out yet interconnected city. Mining buildings to crater out ice fed to fuel refineries to use in the various power plants and spaceport refueling. Rather than making a single unit like a starship, use Space Stations rules and have Sections and Facilities spread out. Sensor arrays and gunnery stations dot around the region. Residences, command modules, service areas and manufacturing burrow down, rise up and spread out.

 

[fusor]

IN reality running out of water, or any material once you have spaceflight advanced enough to reach Ceres is highly improbably. Between asteroids moons, and comets there's enough loose material floating around the system to build a few planets, and then some.
One or two good sized nickle iron rich asteroids wold be enough to build entire cites out of. Mars has enough light metals to do us for a very long time..unless we just fire millions of tons of material into the sun for giggles and grins

"The total mass of the asteroid belt is approximately 4% that of the Moon" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_belt)
"Despite its vast extent, the collective mass of the Kuiper belt is relatively low. The total mass is estimated to range between 1/25th and 1/10th the mass of the Earth,[79] with some estimates placing it at one thirtieth of an Earth mass" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt#Mass_and_size_distribution)

So, actually, there isn't enough material to build a "few planets and then some". If you combined it all you'd end up with a single body about the mass of Mercury and Mars.

Also, while it's true that a single decent-sized metallic asteroid would provide a huge amount of nickel, iron and rare earth metals, it's not clear that Mars has enough actual ore deposits that would be economical to mine. It probably does, given that water did flow on its surface once and that tends to erode and concentrate ores in placer deposits, but we just don't know for sure yet.

 

[Anonymous]

Engineering of this scale is way beyond Traveller norms. I doubt that our definitions of 'economical to mine' will apply once you have the ability to turn moons into spaceships. They may not even use money. If money exists as a means to ration limited resources, it might vanish.

 

[Condottiere]

Probably will be covered in the Space Station supplement.

 

[wbnc]

IN reality running out of water, or any material once you have spaceflight advanced enough to reach Ceres is highly improbably. Between asteroids moons, and comets there's enough loose material floating around the system to build a few planets, and then some.
One or two good sized nickle iron rich asteroids wold be enough to build entire cites out of. Mars has enough light metals to do us for a very long time..unless we just fire millions of tons of material into the sun for giggles and grins

"The total mass of the asteroid belt is approximately 4% that of the Moon" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_belt)
"Despite its vast extent, the collective mass of the Kuiper belt is relatively low. The total mass is estimated to range between 1/25th and 1/10th the mass of the Earth,[79] with some estimates placing it at one thirtieth of an Earth mass" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt#Mass_and_size_distribution)

So, actually, there isn't enough material to build a "few planets and then some". If you combined it all you'd end up with a single body about the mass of Mercury and Mars.

Also, while it's true that a single decent-sized metallic asteroid would provide a huge amount of nickel, iron and rare earth metals, it's not clear that Mars has enough actual ore deposits that would be economical to mine. It probably does, given that water did flow on its surface once and that tends to erode and concentrate ores in placer deposits, but we just don't know for sure yet.

alrght...

But as for mars and the Kuiper belt....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore_resources_on_Mars
there are lots of indications of formations similar to those to earth that have proven to be resource rich...as for being economical that variable is subject to change. It's solely dependent on how much return there is for investment..and if resources became scare on earth resources on Mars would become far more valuable. Although I doubt we would ever deplete our own resources to the point that would become a vital concern. It would be easier and more effective to mine resources from what we have thrown away over the past century. all those aluminum cans, tin cans, old refrigerators, etc are still there waiting for us to fig them up.

We Have barely began to make any meaningful discoveries in the Kuiper belt., and Oort cloud....so far we've found several large object scientist swore were not out there a few years ago...up tot point of calling anyone who believed in any planets beyond Pluto whcakos...but lo and behold they have evidence of at least one MAJOR object out there and no one has any idea how many dark comets and asteroids are lurking out there. relying on outdated estimates is a bit like saying there isn't anything valuable in North America before more than a mile or two of coastline was explored.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[wbnc]

Yep, little Walle may have a job as a mining engineer someday

 

[Reynard]

Compared to the Earth, Luna and Mars, the belt is a convenient and economical blessing. It is a planet sized object broken up into bite sized chunks more likely than not with the same structure of any other planet in our system all exposed and suspended in, at worst, microgravity. I'm sure, beyond the hazards of working in a hard vacuum this is a mining dream. No pollution as the debris and waste products return to the belt. Plentiful fuel already there with the advent of Traveller style fusion power and fuel cells. Build B and C class shipyards to convert the proper planetoids at the source into more ships as haulers and prospectors. In the process, Earth is a lot cleaner and maybe can fill in the holes and craters scarring it. Yes, I know, there are other issues to clean up the place but mining and refining are major problems. Taking that pressure away could make it easier to focus on the others.

 

[High Orbit Drifter]

Yep, little Walle may have a job as a mining engineer someday

GAH! A soulless megacorp empire will take over all of space? The slums of Ceres scenes in Expanse don't go far enough!

 

[High Orbit Drifter]

Compared to the Earth, Luna and Mars, the belt is a convenient and economical blessing. It is a planet sized object broken up into bite sized chunks more likely than not with the same structure of any other planet in our system all exposed and suspended in, at worst, microgravity. I'm sure, beyond the hazards of working in a hard vacuum this is a mining dream. No pollution as the debris and waste products return to the belt. Plentiful fuel already there with the advent of Traveller style fusion power and fuel cells. Build B and C class shipyards to convert the proper planetoids at the source into more ships as haulers and prospectors. In the process, Earth is a lot cleaner and maybe can fill in the holes and craters scarring it. Yes, I know, there are other issues to clean up the place but mining and refining are major problems. Taking that pressure away could make it easier to focus on the others.

Its not quite planet sized, but close enough for our purposes. You do miss out on some things, like crystals and metals and such that would aggregate in a planetary mantel or on a crust with water present. And you get pollution in the form of rocks and debris having altered orbits, some of which might intersect Terra or Mars. Purely by accident of course :wink:

 

[Reynard]

The belt has about twice the mass of Charon, still a sizable amount of material but, once again, already broken down to easy access it's treasures. Maybe I was assuming but I was under the impression planetary bodies are a mix of most elements and not just ice and nickel/iron. Broken chunks should make it easier to survey and analyze for desired ores and such instead of digging for it.

As to rock waste from processing, the belt already has that down to pebble size. I would think disposing of ejecta would require safety consideration not to aim it into flight paths. Even if aimed at the inner system, and you would need to REALLY be aiming to hit a particular planet, it would take a long time while spreading over time. If nothing else, aim it up or down relative to the plane of the solar system so it disperses forever.

 

[Condottiere]

On the bright side, if you run out of mining material, leak some info to the nearest Bothan spy that one of the system planets is about to revolt.

 

[AndrewW]

On the bright side, if you run out of mining material, leak some info to the nearest Bothan spy that one of the system planets is about to revolt.

It's got to be Mimas.

 

[wbnc]

On the bright side, if you run out of mining material, leak some info to the nearest Bothan spy that one of the system planets is about to revolt.

It's got to be Mimas.

New death star IV with camouflaged hull....we'll get it right this time...for sure.