how do you like the minis and rules?

[PilGrim]

*shrugs* Are you willing to fork out $35 (USD) for a mere 6 figures, Pilgrim?

Nope, not a chance, never. Ever

No

I enjoy painting. It relaxes me. I can sit at my painting table, have a nice glass of whatever and listen to my music or watch a film and chill out, so prepaints are not a great interest to me.

I saw the AT43 stuff and I liked the cargo container, but that was about it. I was more underwhealmed with their paint than BFE.

Don't get me wrong, I like the BF:EVO rules, and to be honest, if the figs were £5 cheaper I would be sat here with some now, but the comparisons , especially with the vehicles are not great. Maybe the problem is that comparison to Heroclix, Star Wars minis and AT43 are not the important ones. I have a shedload of Star Wars stormtroopers because if I want a Stormtrooper, they are the only source, so direct comparisons are difficult. I would not compare the BFE stuff to AT43, but BFE, especially the infantry, are basically just modern infantry, There are a half dozen manufacturers who produce 20-28mm infantry.

Having said all that, here in the UK the BFE infantry are £20 a box, that's closer to $40USD - what would your thoughts be if a product by a US company was available significantly cheaper in the UK than you could buy at home, not as a result of tax, transport costs or whatever, but as a result of a pricing decision by the company?

 

[Mr Evil]

can i pont out alot of modern good quality figs cost alot more than an average £2.50 a fig. well the good ones any way. so cost isnt so bad, and it works out the painting is thrown in for free.

 

[MaxSteiner]

This is hot on the heels of WFB 7th being half price in the US compared to the UK though to put things into perspective

And Mr Evil, even if Privateers were forums bigger it wouldnt change the fact that TMP's one of the busiest miniatures forums on the web, I dont use or like the TMP overly myself, but denying its popularity a bit pointless.

 

[B_Steele]

TMP generally is a sounding ground for angry gamers these days. It is very rare to find any sort of comment-train over there that has not been hijacked by someone who hates everything except their age-old fave from the 80s.

I used to go over there, but not really anymore. It is sad, really.

But hey, it could be worse, it could be RPG.net. :wink:

Cheers,
Bry

ps- I voted on the seriously positive side, but I would have liked my MEA to not be as hulky as they are.

 

[MaxSteiner]

Well fandoms meant to be bitchy and snide about anything not from the eightees isnt it?
To be fair as has been said it isnt really the market the games aimed at either I suppose, but its good to get an outside perspective form time to time.

 

[The Legend]

6 figures for $35 (or £20.00 in the UK) No chance! I've read the rules, admittedly not played them and I usually frown on dissing rules before playing them, but I did not like the look of them. I nearly bought into the AT-43 before xmas after seeing the box but a number of things put me off.

I don't actually like the figures. None. I think they are terrible designs and the Paint schemes and quality is not great, after having a gander at the Core Box I was out. I did look at the troop boxes yesterday and I like the idea of changable heads for figures but thats not enough to warrant the high price tag!

Back to the topic at hand though. I've been playing BFEvo since the rules sheet was released with reps of the Evo stuff or with SST figs and stats and I think they are the best rules system I've played in a long time. I even like them more than FOW (I think, jury is still out on that). I was a big fan of the SST so BF Evo is a great addition.

As for the figures, I've already gone into details on another post so I'll just say :lol:

 

[PilGrim]

can i pont out alot of modern good quality figs cost alot more than an average £2.50 a fig. well the good ones any way. so cost isnt so bad, and it works out the painting is thrown in for free.

Where?
28mm
TAG - £4.95 for 4, all different poses
Eureka (from Fighting 15s, 10 for £11.50)
Mongrel - £8 for 8, again all different poses

Basically £1.00 to £1.25 each

Sorry to be so short Evil, but unless you are making comparisons to fantasy or science fiction, I can't see how that statement can be true

 

[Mr Evil]

when i tried to order some the invoice price was at £3 a fig

also what shop do i buy them from, dont forget figs for sale in shops compared to internet / mail order only prices are totaly different beasts.

you have to comapre like for like, ie produced minis avaialable in a games store boxed.

 

[PilGrim]

when i tried to order some the invoice price was at £3 a fig

also what shop do i buy them from, dont forget figs for sale in shops compared to internet / mail order only prices are totaly different beasts.

you have to comapre like for like, ie produced minis avaialable in a games store boxed.

Without wishing to sound in any way like a flame - What are you talking about? The price in shops is the same from the manufacturer, dealer or whatever. Invoicing?

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

maybe he's taking about shipping costs?

 

[PilGrim]

maybe he's taking about shipping costs?

Possibly, but Mongrell ships at 10%, TAG is free, and Fighting 15s are a bit complicated but work out at about 10-15%.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Rereading the post again, he's got a good point - a lot of small mninis companies sell exclusively online (or traditional mail order) and at shows. This keeps the overheads down as they can send small orders out in padded envelopes, and even larger orders can just go out in small boxes with tons of foam and/or bubble wrap. They've got very low overheads so they can keep the price cheap and still turn a profit. Assuming Mongoose use compartmentalised budgets (so BF: Evo takes a chunk of capital but isn't funded to any higher degree by profits from other lines), BF:Evo has to turn a profit while paying for manafacturing, painting, advertising, the boxes (and how much they'll add to the shipping because of their size), shipping from china, as well as factoring in the distributor's cut of the profits into their retail price.

This doesn't necessarily mean that TAG or whoever works exactly the same way, but I'd wager they have much lower overheads.

 

[PilGrim]

Mongoose have a different marketing strategy, and a different business model, but thats not what he (Mr Evil) said, he said

" alot of modern good quality figs cost alot more than an average £2.50 a fig.

" and "when i tried to order some the invoice price was at £3 a fig "

I am really not trying to kick Evil, who by what I can see from his posts is an enthusiastic chap, but he does seem to be a bit loose with his "facts" when he is leaping to the barricades to defend BFE and MGP.

As for overheads, I'm not really sure that matters to me as a customer. MGP decided to sell BFE in windowed boxes, and it makes sense if you have a painted product to do so to encourge sales, but to expect me to pay a premium for that?

 

[Helstrom]

when i tried to order some the invoice price was at £3 a fig

also what shop do i buy them from, dont forget figs for sale in shops compared to internet / mail order only prices are totaly different beasts.

you have to comapre like for like, ie produced minis avaialable in a games store boxed.

Here's like for like for you:

Figures delivered to my door versus figures in a box in a shop.

:roll:

 

[Mr Evil]

how doese that help your local game store ? and help the spread of the hobby and the chance to find new players ?

 

[MaxSteiner]

You never actually said helping the FLGS was a requirement Evil.
That said, what about Renegade miniatures, or BTD, Perry, etc they are sold in shops and are still 1 quid a fig. In fact quite alot of the smaller companies are also sold in shops, you've just got to look in the right ones. For that matter in the case of Renegade and Perry miniatures I'd say they're truly top of the line miniatures as well. And by supporting the smaller companies you're helping the hobby, simple as.

Its true that mongoose has higher over heads, but they're also selling and producing a far larger volume (In china no less), and hence are able to better weather those costs and for that matter do get higher exposure for all these expenses, whilst smaller companies on the other hand sell less and pay more for their materials.
The fact of the matter is they are somewhat over priced compared to the direct competion, especially as they seem only usable with models in the range due to scaling, and as has been said before prices outside of Fantasy/Scifi are much much lower.
But they are prepainted, and seem destined for wider exposure, so its swings and roundabouts surely?

 

[PilGrim]

how doese that help your local game store ? and help the spread of the hobby and the chance to find new players ?

You seem to be trying to change the subject M8

My local games store is a store, it exists to sell me things so that they can take the money I earned and spend it on things they want. This is what stores do, be it gaming or any other business. I "help" them by buying the product they sell. They encourage me to buy their product by allowing me to use part of their business space to play games in my leisure time. If they don't sell the items I want, or sell them at inflated prices, then I buy elsewhere. If they continue not to have my business, and that of their other customers, they close. To them I'm ultimatly not friends or any other similar concept, I'm a customer. I dont owe them a favour, they need to attract my business. This is a pretty standard arrangement.

Stores dont help the "spread of the hobby" out of any altruistic reason, they are trying to expand their customer base. More customers is good business, and good luck to them.

As for new players, today, that's not that hard. there are plenty of local gaming clubs, at least in the Uk.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

As for overheads, I'm not really sure that matters to me as a customer. MGP decided to sell BFE in windowed boxes, and it makes sense if you have a painted product to do so to encourge sales, but to expect me to pay a premium for that?

I'm gonna leave commenting further on what Evil's saying, because I was just tryign to interpret it but may have been making a balls of it, so onto your point here:

It's less of a premium and more of a factored cost. Mail order/show companies are using their lack of packaging to pass a saving onto you rather than companies who ship their minis in boxes are charging you a premium. and yeah, mongoose could have gone for a smaller box, or one without a window, but they were looking for uniformity and a box that would let you see exactly what you were getting. So it's really a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't - but I'm sure matt and company realise that and made the decisions they felt balanced cost and presentability the best.

As for the overall cost issue, they're a bit pricey for plastics IMO, but not too much that I object vociferously or anything. I'm still getting 8 figures ready to go onto the table for the same price as 6 of the smaller Warmachine/Hordes minis would cost me, ignoring the time it takes to assemble and paint them.

 

[Mr Evil]

thats the trouble with peopel today, all self centered i guese.

my point is if no shop ever sold minis would you have ever got into the hobby ? if you dont support the store the store dies as doese slowly the hobby.

as for clubs, very few around me that arnt extensions of games workshop, or do just cards.

 

[PilGrim]

Yup, fair comment LN.

We do seem to be wandering off topic, so "How do I like the minis and the rules?" sic

Well, the minis are ok but a bit expensive IMHO, the rules look good so far, and I will need to play a bit more before I can say anything more