House fleets for centauri, and others?
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Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I think there should be some other restriction on house fleets, namely, ships they can't have. The Octurion, at least, should be navy only, since they commission one for every Emperor's succession. The great houses aren't going to be buying them surplus from the government...
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
House Kodiro appear to have criminal links (Raiders?) and a strong Slave Trade, so slave troops?
House Durnado have Starship construction (bonus to builds/repairs in campaigns?), military tech, fleet contacts, weapon designers
House Durnado have Starship construction (bonus to builds/repairs in campaigns?), military tech, fleet contacts, weapon designers
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:
Agree, no Octurions. No Rutarians or other advanced craft unless for a specific high tech house
Shadowscout tells me that the Razik was a House fighter in B5 Wars so they'd be the staple fighter rather than Sentris
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Sentri is the general-deployment fighter for the navy, preceded by the Razik. House fleets should be restricted to older designs. Maybe impose an ISD limit on them?
ISD would make sense (and actually have a use!) would you set a date or say 50 year (or whatever) from the date of your campaign?
really cool ideas though............... Agree all Fleets no Octurions
House Kodiro - how about extra 4 pts of crew, +1 Troops per PL of the ship, but reduce CQ by one and -1 to rolls? Initiative is +1
really cool ideas though............... Agree all Fleets no Octurions
House Kodiro - how about extra 4 pts of crew, +1 Troops per PL of the ship, but reduce CQ by one and -1 to rolls? Initiative is +1
Da Boss said:
ISDs could be useful, though in pickup games they unfortunately tend to be ignored. If ISDs can be enforced fo the house fleets, it could lead nicely with EPs comments:
emperorpenguin said:
For starters, perhaps allowing House Durando access to ships out with the ISD restrictions on other houses? But still needs more.
emperorpenguin said:
Da Boss said:
I was tempted by the ideas of Raider allies and/or the slave 'meat shields'/shock troops, but I didn't see a Centauri Great House openly flying with a Raider band (bad for their image and appear weaker to the other Houses by having to rely on outsiders). The Slave Troops is a difficult one, certainly any bonuses need to balance any penalties and make them different to other. I like the idea of additional troops and crew, but it still needs s bit more. Perhaps fear or promises of freedom could motivate a crew/troops to take stupid risks?
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Obviously in campaigns they'd get cheaper crew recovery. To be honest, I think house fleets might be best as campaign-only stuff like the refits table.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
All very intresting from a theoretical standpoint.
I would suggest from a balance standpoint:
1). Ardo: Overpowered. The number of free Havens you would get and use as initiative sinks easily outweighs the -1 on initiative you suffer on average. We could (for 1e only! -- all these things would need to be completely redesigned for 2e) insititute another rule that would force Ardo players to re-design their Centauri tactics: at least half of all Ardo FAPs must be spent purchasing Skirmish ships or lower. If someone loves running Vorchans, this would be the House to join.
2). Durnado: Ok, I ran out of ideas, too. Perhaps a free refit? No duties. Another option might be permitting 1 extra wing of Razik for each ship purchased that has already has a fighter compliment.
3). Hessius: Neat stuff, but I don't want this to get too much like Minbari jump tactics with bombing. Balance does not feel off, however. Suggestion: AJP for entry restrictions, but their jump points still scatter like regular jump points. To rebalance back, Hessius gets to deploy one additional FAP (and 1 FAP if the scenario normally permits none) per scenario in Hyperspace. That way they more often get to use their advantage.
4). Lurshan: Feels good.
5). Orestres: CQ language needs some clarification: does this mean ISA ships would be 3 or 4? The CQ modification in campaign situations would be very harsh; woudl suggest a downtune (perhaps only on a 6?). If you did that, Orestres would need to get something back:
Sabotage: Once per game, House Orestres comes up with some new, sneaky, and unique way to disable one ship in an opposing fleet, be it new weapon technology, infiltrators, or just old-fashioned cleverness by a captain. Pick one ship after movement phase is completed. It suffers one random critical hit at single damage. Resolve this hit immediately. This cannot be used against crippled or skeleton-crewed vessels. After using this power, Orestres is at +0 initiative for the rest of the combat, as they have used their ace-up-their-sleeves. This adjustment takes place immediately, and may affect which side gets to fire first later in the same turn.
6). Mollari: For the same reason that Ardo is broken, so is Mollari. I ran out of ideas here, too, as I don't want to restrict them to small fleets like Ardo. Instead, let's see if we can resurrect a unit type almost never purchased
Investment Strategies: House Mollari's banking infrastructure means they are masters of investments and real estate, and no investement or real estate is on quite the same scale as a Space Station. Mollari fleets may purchase Space Stations at one priority level below that normally stated; Battle-level bases are purchased as if Raid, War-stations (should one be created) are purchased as Battle-level selections. It still counts as it original priority level for victory point determination, however.
EDIT: Just reminded myself of the Colony Station. I thought it was better than that. My bad. Add the additional rule to reflect Mollari's military wing: Half of all Sentries listed on these purchased bases are upgraded to Rutarians. If a base is specified as part of a scenario as a free purchase, Mollari does not get the Investment Strategies bonus -- the base in question by built by someone else.
7). Refa: Feels very good.
8). Kodiro: Life is Cheap: The loss of a few souls to the emptiness of space means little to House Kodiro, as long as it isn't them who is losing the life. Subjects are placed in bad, cramped quarters on-ship until loaded in Breaching Pods and used as Marines. The open promise is that capture of a ship will result in full citizenship for all survivors. It has never been confirmed that such a instance has ever been actually granted, however. All Raid-or above house Kodiro ships come with 2 wings of Breaching Pods, all Skirmish and below ships come with 1 Breaching Pod wing. However, all ships brought to zero crew by these Breaching Pods are considered destroyed, not captured for victory point purposes -- the new commanders of the captured vessels are now armed, and aren't trustworthy. These breaching pods do not consume troops on board the Kodiro ships as normal pods do. Reduce the number of troops on board each House Kodiro ship by 1; these are necessary to make sure the slave shock troops are contained during combat.
All the above, of course, needs to be playtested.
I would suggest from a balance standpoint:
1). Ardo: Overpowered. The number of free Havens you would get and use as initiative sinks easily outweighs the -1 on initiative you suffer on average. We could (for 1e only! -- all these things would need to be completely redesigned for 2e) insititute another rule that would force Ardo players to re-design their Centauri tactics: at least half of all Ardo FAPs must be spent purchasing Skirmish ships or lower. If someone loves running Vorchans, this would be the House to join.
2). Durnado: Ok, I ran out of ideas, too. Perhaps a free refit? No duties. Another option might be permitting 1 extra wing of Razik for each ship purchased that has already has a fighter compliment.
3). Hessius: Neat stuff, but I don't want this to get too much like Minbari jump tactics with bombing. Balance does not feel off, however. Suggestion: AJP for entry restrictions, but their jump points still scatter like regular jump points. To rebalance back, Hessius gets to deploy one additional FAP (and 1 FAP if the scenario normally permits none) per scenario in Hyperspace. That way they more often get to use their advantage.
4). Lurshan: Feels good.
5). Orestres: CQ language needs some clarification: does this mean ISA ships would be 3 or 4? The CQ modification in campaign situations would be very harsh; woudl suggest a downtune (perhaps only on a 6?). If you did that, Orestres would need to get something back:
Sabotage: Once per game, House Orestres comes up with some new, sneaky, and unique way to disable one ship in an opposing fleet, be it new weapon technology, infiltrators, or just old-fashioned cleverness by a captain. Pick one ship after movement phase is completed. It suffers one random critical hit at single damage. Resolve this hit immediately. This cannot be used against crippled or skeleton-crewed vessels. After using this power, Orestres is at +0 initiative for the rest of the combat, as they have used their ace-up-their-sleeves. This adjustment takes place immediately, and may affect which side gets to fire first later in the same turn.
6). Mollari: For the same reason that Ardo is broken, so is Mollari. I ran out of ideas here, too, as I don't want to restrict them to small fleets like Ardo. Instead, let's see if we can resurrect a unit type almost never purchased
Investment Strategies: House Mollari's banking infrastructure means they are masters of investments and real estate, and no investement or real estate is on quite the same scale as a Space Station. Mollari fleets may purchase Space Stations at one priority level below that normally stated; Battle-level bases are purchased as if Raid, War-stations (should one be created) are purchased as Battle-level selections. It still counts as it original priority level for victory point determination, however.
EDIT: Just reminded myself of the Colony Station. I thought it was better than that. My bad. Add the additional rule to reflect Mollari's military wing: Half of all Sentries listed on these purchased bases are upgraded to Rutarians. If a base is specified as part of a scenario as a free purchase, Mollari does not get the Investment Strategies bonus -- the base in question by built by someone else.
7). Refa: Feels very good.
8). Kodiro: Life is Cheap: The loss of a few souls to the emptiness of space means little to House Kodiro, as long as it isn't them who is losing the life. Subjects are placed in bad, cramped quarters on-ship until loaded in Breaching Pods and used as Marines. The open promise is that capture of a ship will result in full citizenship for all survivors. It has never been confirmed that such a instance has ever been actually granted, however. All Raid-or above house Kodiro ships come with 2 wings of Breaching Pods, all Skirmish and below ships come with 1 Breaching Pod wing. However, all ships brought to zero crew by these Breaching Pods are considered destroyed, not captured for victory point purposes -- the new commanders of the captured vessels are now armed, and aren't trustworthy. These breaching pods do not consume troops on board the Kodiro ships as normal pods do. Reduce the number of troops on board each House Kodiro ship by 1; these are necessary to make sure the slave shock troops are contained during combat.
All the above, of course, needs to be playtested.
Thanks for the feedback CZuschlag, all the suggestions were for 1e Centauri fleets for pick-up play. Aside from the forum hints, I have no idea what might be in 2e, or what else might change. Campaign use is where the Great Houses can really be themed individually.
House Ardo - I was aiming this house as one that is used to protecting trade convoys from Raiders and organising police raids on Raider strongholds. From an investment point of view, I reasoned that it would have more light vessels available for protecting their intrests - hence the extra FAP of Havens (Which are admittedly a rather poor ship at present). The initiative penalty was to some way mitigate the potential Haven swarm. Would it be worth adding the at least 2/5 of FAP must be spent on vessels from Patrol or Skirmish (a few extra Haven are unlikely to make much of an initiative differece with that potential swarm) or would it be worth 'improving' the standard Haven available to House Ardo somewhat (e.g. Dodge 4+ and 4AD of Matter Cannon?) instead.
House Durnado - With their skilled work crews and creative designers, vessels built at House Durnado's extensive shipyard facilities are in great demand throughout Centauri space. Indeed, almost every Octurion built to date have been launched from House Durnado's yards.
Bonus: Testbed vessels, continually trying to improve on their hull designs most Durnado ships have been modified in some way to test new systems or weapons configurations. Each ship receives one roll on the Centauri Refit Table. Aditionally, up to half of House Durnado's Raziks may be upgraded to Sentris.
House Hessius - I like it, consider it added. I was also considering changing the Initiative back to the standard Great House +2
Orestres - Basically I was aiming for them making a temporary disruption to a ships running, so it no longer is quite as smooth and organised, for campaign play it it is just for the duration of this engagement and whatever problems the Orestres agents have sewn are 'fixed' soon after the battle. The base CQ of a ship would be reduced to 3, however fleet specific special rules like Ranger Training, Vree Telepathy etc. would still provide it's bonus as normal.
House Mollari - While the space station idea is good for campaign play, I'm not sure it really works for pick-up games though. I would be very interested for further comments or suggestions for House Mollari (and no suggestions of taking a single Shadow Ship instead of the Mollari fleet
).
House Kodiro - Nice, though I am not too sure about the captured ships being counted as destroyed. Surely they would have some way to painfully 'disable' the slaves afterwards (implant bombs, grafted pain givers etc.). Also, how would you consider the following in addition: House Kadiro Breaching pods are fitted with explosives designed to go off in case a breaching pod is badly damaged or destroyed by enemy fighters. Roll for dogfights between a Kodiro breaching pod (dogfight +0) and an enemy auxillary craft, if the breaching pod wins, then both the pod and the enemy auxillary craft are destroyed.
Edits made to the Post on page 2
House Ardo - I was aiming this house as one that is used to protecting trade convoys from Raiders and organising police raids on Raider strongholds. From an investment point of view, I reasoned that it would have more light vessels available for protecting their intrests - hence the extra FAP of Havens (Which are admittedly a rather poor ship at present). The initiative penalty was to some way mitigate the potential Haven swarm. Would it be worth adding the at least 2/5 of FAP must be spent on vessels from Patrol or Skirmish (a few extra Haven are unlikely to make much of an initiative differece with that potential swarm) or would it be worth 'improving' the standard Haven available to House Ardo somewhat (e.g. Dodge 4+ and 4AD of Matter Cannon?) instead.
House Durnado - With their skilled work crews and creative designers, vessels built at House Durnado's extensive shipyard facilities are in great demand throughout Centauri space. Indeed, almost every Octurion built to date have been launched from House Durnado's yards.
Bonus: Testbed vessels, continually trying to improve on their hull designs most Durnado ships have been modified in some way to test new systems or weapons configurations. Each ship receives one roll on the Centauri Refit Table. Aditionally, up to half of House Durnado's Raziks may be upgraded to Sentris.
House Hessius - I like it, consider it added. I was also considering changing the Initiative back to the standard Great House +2
Orestres - Basically I was aiming for them making a temporary disruption to a ships running, so it no longer is quite as smooth and organised, for campaign play it it is just for the duration of this engagement and whatever problems the Orestres agents have sewn are 'fixed' soon after the battle. The base CQ of a ship would be reduced to 3, however fleet specific special rules like Ranger Training, Vree Telepathy etc. would still provide it's bonus as normal.
House Mollari - While the space station idea is good for campaign play, I'm not sure it really works for pick-up games though. I would be very interested for further comments or suggestions for House Mollari (and no suggestions of taking a single Shadow Ship instead of the Mollari fleet
).House Kodiro - Nice, though I am not too sure about the captured ships being counted as destroyed. Surely they would have some way to painfully 'disable' the slaves afterwards (implant bombs, grafted pain givers etc.). Also, how would you consider the following in addition: House Kadiro Breaching pods are fitted with explosives designed to go off in case a breaching pod is badly damaged or destroyed by enemy fighters. Roll for dogfights between a Kodiro breaching pod (dogfight +0) and an enemy auxillary craft, if the breaching pod wins, then both the pod and the enemy auxillary craft are destroyed.
Edits made to the Post on page 2
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Silvereye,
As I currently understand it, all you are really giving up when you select a Great House fleet instead of a main fleet is access to the Octurian, Liati, and Adira (of which, really, multiple Primus are in general better), access to Sentris (and here, Raziks are better), and access to only 1 Primus or Tertius (and really, with the Sulust and Prefect at Raid, this isn't any serious loss, either.), and (probably most importantly) +1 initiative bonus. That just isn't giving up much of anything. So, what you're giving up isn't a ton; we shouldn't get a ton back in exchange, either.
The 1 Battle does create a fleet hole, however -- you won't be buying any Balavarix anytime soon. So, auxiliary craft and aux craft defense are new issues. This was the first idea when I went writing.
My thoughts:
Ardo: Bonus -- yes, they are Havens, but you're getting one extra FAP per battle for free. Even if you just use them as initiative sinks behind terrain, this is pretty huge. Against races with shorter-ranged non-turret weaponry -- some 3rd Age EA, Dilgar, Drakh, Abbai -- and those with Boresight restrictions -- 3rd Age EA, Crusade EA, Drazi, Narn -- this is a very big deal. So, you can't get this advantage, as bad as the Haven is, without a significant price. The Maximus isn't a bad ship, and, with initiative sinks to help out, the Vorchan might actually be a good ship. I just kept the abusive beam ships --- and not all of them, the Darkener is still out there! -- off the table. In exchange for a whole extra FAP point, Ardo gets an absolute steal. Ardo might actually still be overpowered in this version.
Orestres: The more I read my Sabotage rule, the more I dislike the implementation. Stupid idea. I just don't want to really mess with some races without recorse -- consider a Pak ship that might never be able repair a critical. In campaigns, where high CQ ships proliferate, this gets pretty harsh. And remember, we're only really giving up +1 initiative here. 1/3 of the fleet experiencing trouble is problematic. Perhaps replace the Sabotage critical effect by being able to, once per game, cancel or remove the effect of any one special order on any one ship, in addition to the CQ 3 on a 1-in-6 chance?
Another thought:
Superior Intelligence: Orestres doesn't just gather intelligence on opposing fleets, but also on individual captains and tactics. It allows them to force other captain's hands by provocation. During your movement, you may choose to move 2 activations' worth of ships at the same time. In exchange for this loss of initiative sink, you may select which of your opponents ships must move next, instead of your opponent choosing. Selected ships in a squadron may break off the squadron at this time; the whole squadron does not have to move. You can do this once per 2 FAPs in the scenario (3 times in a 6 Raid or 6 Battle fight), rounding up.
Kodiro: You're getting something for free, Breaching Pods in hordes. Pods normally stink, but in big waves, they are actually interesting. You'll struggle to get them past fighter escorts, which I'm fine with. I definitely do not like the explosives rule -- why doesn't every race fit them? Capturing is enough VP on its own. As to the disabling devices --- if the slaves knew they had them (they would), why would they even try fighting? And some ships have shields, the remote control might not get through. Finally, we have just seen a group of any slaves just commandeer a Warship. Memories of Narn insurrection might suggest the best treatment is the elimination of the threat once and for all -- Maker knows what slave might be hiding in some air duct, marked up as dead during the chaotic fighting, and going to run commando through the ship. Better safe than sorry. But, mostly, I did it for balance.
Mollari: Well, I was hoping as a Raid selection it wouldn't be bad on the table. The range is 30, it's now Raid, you could operate next to the base and force something to enter into range or suffer long-range Battle Laser plinking. 10 fighter flights are something you normally need to buy a Balavarin for anyways (and that's provided you get them all launched!), so that can help against EA. I added some extra incentive by giving some access to Rutarian goodness, something that you don't normally see right now. Eh. I was thinking in campaign settings, the basemight be too powerful (remember -- we're only giving up +1 initiative and some other things we can easily do without), so I was thinking of boosting Mollari's Base expense from 5 RR/turn to 6 or 7 RR/turn to make up for the relavite purchase savings --- from 40 RR, which can be hard to amass in one turn, to 30 RR.
As I currently understand it, all you are really giving up when you select a Great House fleet instead of a main fleet is access to the Octurian, Liati, and Adira (of which, really, multiple Primus are in general better), access to Sentris (and here, Raziks are better), and access to only 1 Primus or Tertius (and really, with the Sulust and Prefect at Raid, this isn't any serious loss, either.), and (probably most importantly) +1 initiative bonus. That just isn't giving up much of anything. So, what you're giving up isn't a ton; we shouldn't get a ton back in exchange, either.
The 1 Battle does create a fleet hole, however -- you won't be buying any Balavarix anytime soon. So, auxiliary craft and aux craft defense are new issues. This was the first idea when I went writing.
My thoughts:
Ardo: Bonus -- yes, they are Havens, but you're getting one extra FAP per battle for free. Even if you just use them as initiative sinks behind terrain, this is pretty huge. Against races with shorter-ranged non-turret weaponry -- some 3rd Age EA, Dilgar, Drakh, Abbai -- and those with Boresight restrictions -- 3rd Age EA, Crusade EA, Drazi, Narn -- this is a very big deal. So, you can't get this advantage, as bad as the Haven is, without a significant price. The Maximus isn't a bad ship, and, with initiative sinks to help out, the Vorchan might actually be a good ship. I just kept the abusive beam ships --- and not all of them, the Darkener is still out there! -- off the table. In exchange for a whole extra FAP point, Ardo gets an absolute steal. Ardo might actually still be overpowered in this version.
Orestres: The more I read my Sabotage rule, the more I dislike the implementation. Stupid idea. I just don't want to really mess with some races without recorse -- consider a Pak ship that might never be able repair a critical. In campaigns, where high CQ ships proliferate, this gets pretty harsh. And remember, we're only really giving up +1 initiative here. 1/3 of the fleet experiencing trouble is problematic. Perhaps replace the Sabotage critical effect by being able to, once per game, cancel or remove the effect of any one special order on any one ship, in addition to the CQ 3 on a 1-in-6 chance?
Another thought:
Superior Intelligence: Orestres doesn't just gather intelligence on opposing fleets, but also on individual captains and tactics. It allows them to force other captain's hands by provocation. During your movement, you may choose to move 2 activations' worth of ships at the same time. In exchange for this loss of initiative sink, you may select which of your opponents ships must move next, instead of your opponent choosing. Selected ships in a squadron may break off the squadron at this time; the whole squadron does not have to move. You can do this once per 2 FAPs in the scenario (3 times in a 6 Raid or 6 Battle fight), rounding up.
Kodiro: You're getting something for free, Breaching Pods in hordes. Pods normally stink, but in big waves, they are actually interesting. You'll struggle to get them past fighter escorts, which I'm fine with. I definitely do not like the explosives rule -- why doesn't every race fit them? Capturing is enough VP on its own. As to the disabling devices --- if the slaves knew they had them (they would), why would they even try fighting? And some ships have shields, the remote control might not get through. Finally, we have just seen a group of any slaves just commandeer a Warship. Memories of Narn insurrection might suggest the best treatment is the elimination of the threat once and for all -- Maker knows what slave might be hiding in some air duct, marked up as dead during the chaotic fighting, and going to run commando through the ship. Better safe than sorry. But, mostly, I did it for balance.
Mollari: Well, I was hoping as a Raid selection it wouldn't be bad on the table. The range is 30, it's now Raid, you could operate next to the base and force something to enter into range or suffer long-range Battle Laser plinking. 10 fighter flights are something you normally need to buy a Balavarin for anyways (and that's provided you get them all launched!), so that can help against EA. I added some extra incentive by giving some access to Rutarian goodness, something that you don't normally see right now. Eh. I was thinking in campaign settings, the basemight be too powerful (remember -- we're only giving up +1 initiative and some other things we can easily do without), so I was thinking of boosting Mollari's Base expense from 5 RR/turn to 6 or 7 RR/turn to make up for the relavite purchase savings --- from 40 RR, which can be hard to amass in one turn, to 30 RR.
CZuschlag said:
Perhaps the +2 Initiative is still actually too good for what we are wanting. +1 Initiative as a baseline would put the Great Houses into a similar position to some of the League races and behind the Narn (I'd consider keeping Durnado, Mollari and Reefa at +2). It may also affect the restricted battle choices and potential fleet hole below.
CZuschlag said:
Reducing the Initiative to +1 could also enhance the appeal of a Balvarix quite a bit, as the +2 Command could suddenly become a very attractive option.
Aditionally, the other real fleet building concern I have is the Corvan and Vorchar, would (and perhaps should) the Great Houses have access to lots of cheap scout vessels, or should the Scout trait be limited within a fleet (Orestres excepted)?
Ardo: Again, very good points. I feel that as a Trading house more, lighter vessels are an integral part of their setup. What about taking this house down either a pack mentality route - in addition to the Skirmish/Patrol restriction. Would providing a CQ bonus to ships in a Squadron sound reasonable. Or alternatively, as Raiders are regular opponents to this House, would a few additional free flights of Raziks, or additional hanger spaces for them, be better options?
Orestres: Certianly the ability to cancel a Special Action during an engagement can be powerful. It also feels a lot better than the Critical Hit sabotage devices. I think the Superior Intelligence is perhaps pushing the fleet tactics too much, perhaps better used for an other duties option.
Kodiro: "I definitely do not like the explosives rule -- why doesn't every race fit them?" Mainly for a bit of flavour, I am sure most races would like to try and recover any surviving marines as a lot of resources and effort has gone into training them, supplying and equiping them and getting them there.
As you say, the ship captured by slaves would need to be neutralised (probably by pumping in poison gas or venting its atmosphere to space). I guess for campaign play there should be some bonuses for taking a ship this manner, but during a pickup game this detail is not needed.
Mollari: Certainly the space station tweaks are again more campaign play. I was trying to get a feel for what kind of fleet operations and play style House Mollari would use. Originally I was looking at them using favours and debts and wealth to pull together nore resources (FAPs) than they should be ordinarily capable of, and their military contacts being used to get around the Battle choice restrictions.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Well, drat --- now I know what kind of feel you want for Mollari, and I've missed it by a good deal. Hmm. Now I do have to think about it. Yeah --- this'll take a sec.
Oooh .... how about the ability to pay for additional resources by giving away VPs to your opponent at setup? The VPs reflect the value of the leverage/bribe/collateral/blackmail material given up within Centauri politics to get that last extra fleet element?
I'm looking for some Rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul like mechanic that doesn't depend on a campaign element...
Oooh .... how about the ability to pay for additional resources by giving away VPs to your opponent at setup? The VPs reflect the value of the leverage/bribe/collateral/blackmail material given up within Centauri politics to get that last extra fleet element?
I'm looking for some Rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul like mechanic that doesn't depend on a campaign element...
