high tech vs low tech hacking

[Jak Nazryth]

Last night I had to make a game-time GM decision.
My players were on a TL 10 high port. One of them hacked into the high ports computer system to try and track down a specific person. (This is a yellow zone repressed society. All off-worlders must register etc...) He wanted to find out when the person arrived and what was the person's listed destination on-world.

Since he was "schooled" in the Emperium and was using a TL 12 hand computer, he asked if he could get a bonus to his hacking skill. After some quick discussion, I made a house rule that you get a bonus for hacking based on the difference in Tech levels. He got a +2 to his hacking skill in this case.
I am not as computer savvy as many of my friends in the I.T. industry, (3 out of the 6 players at my table are I.T. guys) but they seemed to agree with the rule.
Is this an appropriate house rule?

 

[DFW]

I am not as computer savvy as many of my friends in the I.T. industry, (3 out of the 6 players at my table are I.T. guys) but they seemed to agree with the rule.
Is this an appropriate house rule?

I've worked in ITSec for a LONG time. Just having a computer of higher TL does nothing. You need to have pgms that are appropriate to the task at hand.

 

[tolcreator]

I am not as computer savvy as many of my friends in the I.T. industry, (3 out of the 6 players at my table are I.T. guys) but they seemed to agree with the rule.
Is this an appropriate house rule?

I've worked in ITSec for a LONG time. Just having a computer of higher TL does nothing. You need to have pgms that are appropriate to the task at hand.

I don't know about that... a 2011 laptop trying to hack a 2001 laptop isn't going to do much for you... but that same laptop will surely crack an enigma machine in no time. It is theorised that a quantum computer will find modern unbreakable encription trivial. I think a bonus isn't out of the question.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I think software was part of the argument. They argued that more advanced software and processing power could cut through a much less advanced fire-wall in no time. I'm not wanting to duplicate reality. I just want a simple game mechanic for a science fiction game. They are I.T. guys, so it seemed a reasonable game mechanic to me.

 

[phavoc]

Depends on what they are trying to do. Having a more powerful machine running a cracking program/analysis does make a difference.

But sometimes being too high tech bites you in the ass too. If you had to go out and modify some Cobol lines to hack the system and you were uber good in C#, you're screwed. But if you had to guess a password, then yeah, maybe. Of course, don't forget to factor in that older computers won't automatically take the faster capabilities of the new ones. You might in fact set off an alarm for trying 100,000 passwords/minute on a system that's only ever seen 1,000.

I'd probably have said "sure. hack away. you're in! oops, you set off an intrusion alarm because the network sniffer picked up 1,000% increase in network traffic."

 

[DFW]

I don't know about that... a 2011 laptop trying to hack a 2001 laptop isn't going to do much for you... but that same laptop will surely crack an enigma machine in no time.

No it won't. The computer will do nothing at all with it..

Try it sometime if you don't believe me.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I can always modify the rule. But the fact that he rolled natural 12, then added a +4 bonus for his skills and stats, even before I gave him the TL bonus was added, kinda made the thing mute. He rolled so well he got in, got the information, and got out without raising a hint of an alarm. So the Tech level bonus in this case was not necessary to give him that extra point to attain success. He just rolled maximum on his dice and got it anyway. But in the future, I just want some other voices besides my friends at the table. Again, I completely understand reality in our own world today. But I'm looking for a simple game mechanic. And, the game mechanic can be "you get no bonus for higher tech level".
Again, it didn't come into play last night because he rolled so well, but in the future it could.

 

[GypsyComet]

If he's kitted for electronic intrusion work AND knows what sort of system he's looking at then a +1 per TL superior to a maximum of +3 sounds about right. If he isn't equipped for intrusion then there will be no TL bonus, and there may be a penalty for attempting to intrude an unfamiliar system.

 

[Ishmael]

DFW, just think what Alan Turing could have done with a laptop in hut8 !!!

 

[SSWarlock]

Everyone here has brought up a good point...that is, "things" can be used as skill enabler gates. In other words, the use of software could be said to allow the player a skill roll bonus; without the software, the attempt can't even be made.

I use the skill enabler equipment ruling often. It helps control PCs with uber skills and acts as a bit of a money sink without stressing the players unduly since the decisions as to what to buy is in their hands.

 

[rust]

And, the game mechanic can be "you get no bonus for higher tech level".

This would be my rule in the case you described. Using TL 12 equipment to hack any
TL 10 computer, a difference of 2 technology levels, would most probably be like at-
tempting to use a modern desktop computer to hack a 1950s punch card calculator -
not even remotely possible.

 

[GypsyComet]

Not sure I'd use that analogy, as the prototype period for computers (arguably what the punchcard days were) rarely had anything that would qualify as a network. Hacking was done with an axe or an unfortunate *bump* to that furniture-sized storage device.

Its why I would cap a TL mod at +2 or +3, though, and require the right tools to hack at all.

Hacking "uphill" on the other hand, is going to be tough. Even prepared for it, a -1 per TL delta is being generous, and will not have a cap.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Scoundrel has a nice chapter on Computer Hacking. It uses the software as the modifier, not TL of the computer.

It also provides a nice table with increasingly more powerful intrusion software at higher Tech Levels.

Depending on how your game is running, you might want to pick that book up. Especially if you have a bunch of IT guys playing. Sure some of the assumptions are not very good (this is Traveller Computers we are talking about), but there is also a decent explanation about WHY it works the way it does in Traveller.

Hope that helps.

 

[far-trader]

This I think is more a case of situational infrastructure.

The way I understand Mongoose describes the Imperium is one of a distributed architecture. Ships are built across the Imperium to a basic TL12 standard, regardless of local TL or government. This requires a like distribution of all associated tech. It is all part of interstellar commerce and trade. There are no Prime Directive rules restricting locals to not be subjected to advanced tech. The opposite in fact. It is encouraged and anti-consumerism would be seen as anti-Imperial.

So the computer and communications network on any given member world will be pretty much the same backbone, built to the same basic TL12 standard. In this case there are two issues. First, the systems are compatible, you will be able to hack it with your gear and knowledge. Second you will not have a benefit since they are the same and you have no superiority.

Even more so for the systems for and associated with the Starport. This should be an Imperial installation (on the Imperial side of the extrality line at least), and as such the best and most secure in the Imperium (TL15 and the best brains over 1000's of years working on the security of it). That TL12 handcomp and the lone PC doesn't stand a chance

Alternatively, if this Amber Zone for some reason is permitted to restrict off-world tech so the above doesn't apply then I don't see hacking by outsider tech or training as even remotely viable. It is just not going to be compatible with the "alien" technology and training.

The bigger issue I'd see, in the case of being able to hack in the first place is that at the very least the characters would probably have to physically tap into the secure fiber-optic lines somewhere upstream of a protected node, or gain physical access to a high level secure terminal. Meaning first they'll have to break and enter a secure facility. It won't be possible via wi-fi. Then they'll have to make that Electronics skill check to patch the handcomp in. It sounds like they maybe did this from your description but that's just a guess...

...and done is done All refs have to make such calls now and then and we do the best we can. You can always claim the methods and benefits used only apply to this world and it was a unique circumstance. If you want to change the "rules" for the next time. Other systems are not going to be so easy for the characters

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Scoundrel has a nice chapter on Computer Hacking. It uses the software as the modifier, not TL of the computer.

It also provides a nice table with increasingly more powerful intrusion software at higher Tech Levels.

Depending on how your game is running, you might want to pick that book up. Especially if you have a bunch of IT guys playing. Sure some of the assumptions are not very good (this is Traveller Computers we are talking about), but there is also a decent explanation about WHY it works the way it does in Traveller.

Hope that helps.

I have the book, but was unaware of that chapter. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll read it when I get home later this evening.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Alternatively, if this Amber Zone for some reason is permitted to restrict off-world tech so the above doesn't apply then I don't see hacking by outsider tech or training as even remotely viable. It is just not going to be compatible with the "alien" technology and training./quote]

This was is district 268 on Pavabib. The planet is TL6 but it has a type c starport.
There is a long chapter in the Spinward Marches supplement that creates the setting and paranoia with off-worlders. Since it is outside the Emperium, and a low tech world with a history of higher tech in the past, I made the call that the high port and other interstellar facilities was TL10 at the most. The Highport is where most interstellar travel takes place. A downport acts both as the main (and largest) airport for the capital, with a small portion set aside for terrestrial based star ships

As far as the hacking... yes, you basically got it right.

I agree with your other points.

 

[GypsyComet]

"You want to hack in and check out the local's network? What do you have?"

(Handcomp-12, general snooping tools, and some older rev Imperial icecrackers)

"Your Comp's wireless is silent. You know some of these old isolationist colonies brought in and installed some ancient Vilani stuff for networking, but you don't know if that's what this world did."

(discrete snooping and a Comp Edu roll later...)

"Yup, its old Vilani hardware. Your snooping tools know how to handle the factory configs (haven't changed since Arbellatra), but you'll need to hardwire in to figure out if those are still in place. The tools and supplies for that are, you think, fairly easy to come by, though this place doesn't have casual electronics dealers."

(some MacGyver-like shopping, followed by some minor B&E to find a data cable)

"Electronics roll... Good; cable spliced. Comp roll... cable is live, and the idle protocols tell you that at least some of the old factory stuff is still in place. Now..."

And so on.

 

[locarno24]

I don't know about that... a 2011 laptop trying to hack a 2001 laptop isn't going to do much for you... but that same laptop will surely crack an enigma machine in no time. It is theorised that a quantum computer will find modern unbreakable encription trivial. I think a bonus isn't out of the question.

As noted, it depends on software more than power. Your mobile phone has enough computing power to screw over the WWII enigma network, but unless you have a tool where you can put the appropriate data in and get the appropriate data out, it ain't going to help. Computers only do what they're told and you won't have the time to write software on the fly.

Higher tech hacking software does get better - that's why Agent programmes cost more at higher TLs.

So the computer and communications network on any given member world will be pretty much the same backbone, built to the same basic TL12 standard. In this case there are two issues. First, the systems are compatible, you will be able to hack it with your gear and knowledge. Second you will not have a benefit since they are the same and you have no superiority.

Even more so for the systems for and associated with the Starport. This should be an Imperial installation (on the Imperial side of the extrality line at least), and as such the best and most secure in the Imperium (TL15 and the best brains over 1000's of years working on the security of it). That TL12 handcomp and the lone PC doesn't stand a chance

Remember that the starport is Imperial territory. There's a good chance that the local 'port systems will be TL12+ , even if the rest of the planet still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

 

[DFW]

Remember that the starport is Imperial territory. There's a good chance that the local 'port systems will be TL12+ , even if the rest of the planet still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

Not only that but, 35 years ago I could have given you access to a dumb terminal on my network and you could have used TL 10 hand computer and you would NOT have gotten past the menu screen you were presented with...

 

[locarno24]

True enough, but that's more specific to the approach; if he sits down at the normal public access terminal, the only thing you're going to be able to do is get it to give you normal access unless it's got an administrator/maintenance mode that you know how to boot up.

If he can do a little creative wiring or something similar to get a 'private' terminal then hacking becomes more feasible, and more co. There was a recent article debating whether or not you can tap an optic fibre system undetectably - mostly due to a group of norwegians proposing how to do it.


Also - being taught TL12 computers is not necessarily an advantage when trying to hack a TL10 machine, as it goes beyond simply the two computers being compatible.

I can get around some contemporary languages, for example, but wouldn't have a clue how to 'fudge' the numbers in the accountancy comptometer my mother used at work (Punch cards ahoy!).

The entire lexicon of commands probably changes fundamentally over 2 TLs - even if the visual interface is the same and the two are compatible I doubt the underlying OS (which is what you're hoping to bugger around with) looks similar.

C:/DOS
C:/DOS/RUN
RUN/DOS/RUN
C:/DOS/HACK ORBITAL WEAPONS GRID
and so on.