Hero's Pride, 100t Automated Free Trader TL15

mavikfelna

Cosmic Mongoose
So I had an idea for a very different Aslan character and while thinking about that I was also wondering about External Cargo Mounts and Automation for starships. I know the Hiver's are big on automation and so "Drake" the Hiver ship designer and economic theorist was born with this ship idea.
As an aside, the ship's name is a pun by Drake. The pilot is my Aslan named Herrerwoweruu, commonly called Hero and he is an outcast, so his family pride is the ship. He is also an Aslan, so lion's pride, and then the fact that in stories, the hero's pride either leads to victory or defeat.

Ok, So this is a TL 15, 100 ton, standard hull with 4 points of superdense armor designed to be manned by a single sophont. It has External Cargo Mounts for 400 tons of cargo and 400 ton drop tank mounts. It can only carry up to a total of 400 tons in the external mounts but can switch to whatever it needs when it needs it. It is Maneuver 5, Jump 5 in its base configuration, giving it M-1, J-1 when fully loaded. It has no standard internal cargo space beyond the single ton set aside for stores, but 4 of the 9.5 ton jump fuel containers are mixed use for fuel or cargo if the ship is running light. They are only configured for fuel if the ship is loading external cargo. The ship has a High Stateroom to make journeys more comfortable for the single crewman.

The ship has a small bridge, as the ship's brain is expected to do most of the flying and astrogation, though it does have Civilian Grade Sensors at least and a TL15 built Computer/25 to manage the software needs of the ship. It is the ships automation that sets it apart. The Hero's Brain, another pun by Drake, ship's brain is a TL15 self-aware robot brain that costs nearly 4MCr but provides for all the command and control functions of the ship. It has an extensive sensor and communications suite and can pilot with a +7 DM and astrogate with a +1 DM (including the -4 penalty for not being conscious). It is assisted in ship's maintenance by a StarTek engineering droid, Maintenance Bot and standard Crew Droid, as well as the built in repair drone swarm. The Crew Droid also serves as a steward for the crewman. Additionally, to assist with the trading functions of the ship, a MixCorp BrokerBot provides the necessary skills.

Terry Mixon helped me with the design, but he says it's not right, shouldn't work. He says it's calculating the drive and fuel sizes wrong. But drives are the same size for a 500 ton ship with M-1 and J-1 as for a 100 tons M-5, J-5 ship carrying 400 tons of cargo externally. And fuel use is the same regardless. Neither of us were able to get the other to understand what we were saying so if anyone can shed any light on if this actually correct, let me know. It matches with the numbers from HG 2022 to the best of my calculations. Terry was saying it needed to be a 500 ton hull carrying 300 tons of external cargo to be able to work correctly, but I think he was trying to maintain a higher jump rating. I'm still not sure. So anyway, if anyone else wants to double-check my numbers and assumptions, I'd appreciate it.

For economics, the ship and make 400KCr a jump with a full load against 145834Cr in expenses. If you are jumping 2 parsecs, your max load is 150 tons of cargo but it still generates 240KCr against the same expenses. Jumping 3 parsec with 50 tons is a money loser with only 130Kcr income.
 

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So I had an idea for a very different Aslan character and while thinking about that I was also wondering about External Cargo Mounts and Automation for starships. I know the Hiver's are big on automation and so "Drake" the Hiver ship designer and economic theorist was born with this ship idea.
As an aside, the ship's name is a pun by Drake. The pilot is my Aslan named Herrerwoweruu, commonly called Hero and he is an outcast, so his family pride is the ship. He is also an Aslan, so lion's pride, and then the fact that in stories, the hero's pride either leads to victory or defeat.

Ok, So this is a TL 15, 100 ton, standard hull with 4 points of superdense armor designed to be manned by a single sophont. It has External Cargo Mounts for 400 tons of cargo and 400 ton drop tank mounts. It can only carry up to a total of 400 tons in the external mounts but can switch to whatever it needs when it needs it. It is Maneuver 5, Jump 5 in its base configuration, giving it M-1, J-1 when fully loaded. It has no standard internal cargo space beyond the single ton set aside for stores, but 4 of the 9.5 ton jump fuel containers are mixed use for fuel or cargo if the ship is running light. They are only configured for fuel if the ship is loading external cargo. The ship has a High Stateroom to make journeys more comfortable for the single crewman.

The ship has a small bridge, as the ship's brain is expected to do most of the flying and astrogation, though it does have Civilian Grade Sensors at least and a TL15 built Computer/25 to manage the software needs of the ship. It is the ships automation that sets it apart. The Hero's Brain, another pun by Drake, ship's brain is a TL15 self-aware robot brain that costs nearly 4MCr but provides for all the command and control functions of the ship. It has an extensive sensor and communications suite and can pilot with a +7 DM and astrogate with a +1 DM (including the -4 penalty for not being conscious). It is assisted in ship's maintenance by a StarTek engineering droid, Maintenance Bot and standard Crew Droid, as well as the built in repair drone swarm. The Crew Droid also serves as a steward for the crewman. Additionally, to assist with the trading functions of the ship, a MixCorp BrokerBot provides the necessary skills.

Terry Mixon helped me with the design, but he says it's not right, shouldn't work. He says it's calculating the drive and fuel sizes wrong. But drives are the same size for a 500 ton ship with M-1 and J-1 as for a 100 tons M-5, J-5 ship carrying 400 tons of cargo externally. And fuel use is the same regardless. Neither of us were able to get the other to understand what we were saying so if anyone can shed any light on if this actually correct, let me know. It matches with the numbers from HG 2022 to the best of my calculations. Terry was saying it needed to be a 500 ton hull carrying 300 tons of external cargo to be able to work correctly, but I think he was trying to maintain a higher jump rating. I'm still not sure. So anyway, if anyone else wants to double-check my numbers and assumptions, I'd appreciate it.

For economics, the ship and make 400KCr a jump with a full load against 145834Cr in expenses. If you are jumping 2 parsecs, your max load is 150 tons of cargo but it still generates 240KCr against the same expenses. Jumping 3 parsec with 50 tons is a money loser with only 130Kcr income.
To be fair, it looks wrong to me but I don’t build ships that use the decay curve like this so I could be wrong. I’m looking forward to learning something. Maybe @Arkathan can shed some light on it.
 
To be fair, it looks wrong to me but I don’t build ships that use the decay curve like this so I could be wrong. I’m looking forward to learning something. Maybe @Arkathan can shed some light on it.
If you build a J1, M1 500 ton hull ship, the drives and fuel requirements are exactly the same as a 100 ton J5, M5 ship. At least going by Arkathan's spreadsheet.
 
With the expense of the ship and TL it seems like Civ Sensors are a bit underpowered.
While I agree with you, 1) it is after all only a freighter, and 2) I don't have the room. The simple change of dropping the fuel/cargo containers back to standard fuel tanks would give me almost 2 tons to play with, but it reduces the flexibility that is party of why I designed it like this in the first place.
I could drop the armor to 3 and trim the stores storage to upgrade the sensors to Military, but then I'm taking damage on an average beam laser shot. Not a big problem, and the external cargo is toast in a fight regardless, but not sure how I feel about it. Convince me to drop the armor. Is Military sensors a big enough boost?
 
If you build a J1, M1 500 ton hull ship, the drives and fuel requirements are exactly the same as a 100 ton J5, M5 ship. At least going by Arkathan's spreadsheet.
Isn't it even the same price?

The only difference that I could see is your J-5 can only have 1 point of High Technology goodness, while the J-2 could have 3. This could be the difference between 95% jump fuel requirements or 85%. save 5 tons/100tons or save 15 tons/100 tons.
 
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Isn't even the same price?

The only difference that I could see is your J-5 can only have 1 point of High Technology goodness, while the J-2 could have 3. This could be the difference between 95% jump fuel requirements or 85%. save 5 tons/100tons or save 15 tons/100 tons.
Yes, it scales with price as well.

The 100 tonner can indeed have fewer High Tech enhancements, and the 500 tonner will ultimately haul more cargo with better efficiency, because it simply has more space to work with, everything else being equal. But it doesn't do the same thing as the little 100 tonner. The 100 tonner is a little souped up Toyota truck that can speed off when it's not overloaded by x4 times it's own weight in cargo strapped everywhere. The 500 tonner is a flatbed truck, and while it can be overloaded to almost double its own weight, it's not a snazzy little nipper when it's not carrying stuff. :)
 
Yes, it scales with price as well.

The 100 tonner can indeed have fewer High Tech enhancements, and the 500 tonner will ultimately haul more cargo with better efficiency, because it simply has more space to work with, everything else being equal. But it doesn't do the same thing as the little 100 tonner. The 100 tonner is a little souped up Toyota truck that can speed off when it's not overloaded by x4 times it's own weight in cargo strapped everywhere. The 500 tonner is a flatbed truck, and while it can be overloaded to almost double its own weight, it's not a snazzy little nipper when it's not carrying stuff. :)
Aren't they both (100 and 500) the same "flatbed truck" just one is empty and the other is full?
 
Oh, I grumble. lol

Edit - What does this do to your thinking on Pods vs. External Cargo Mounts?
Doesn't change it one bit. I build workhorses that can handle monstrous loads by design.

I make versions for each jump level already, and they handle the loads indicated. A high jump version could carry more on a shorter distance, but people could just buy them already set up for the jump capability they want.
 
Aren't they both (100 and 500) the same "flatbed truck" just one is empty and the other is full?
No. One is a Hilux that has a significant engine upgrade. The other is a 1 ton Mack flatbed. When the Hilux is piled up with enough stuff, it's the same weight and performance as the Mack, but you can take the stuff off the Hilux and it goes back to a performance vehicle.
 
No. One is a Hilux that has a significant engine upgrade. The other is a 1 ton Mack flatbed. When the Hilux is piled up with enough stuff, it's the same weight and performance as the Mack, but you can take the stuff off the Hilux and it goes back to a performance vehicle.
I only see a write up for one ship. Am I not seeing something? Right now, it looks like it is the same ship, and the only difference is how much cargo it is carrying at the moment. What am I missing?
 
I only see a write up for one ship. Am I not seeing something? Right now, it looks like it is the same ship, and the only difference is how much cargo it is carrying at the moment. What am I missing?
I don't have Terry's ship posted. He doesn't see how my 100 tonner works and built one at 500 and that is what I was comparing against.

But essentially, if you build this ship at 100 tons with Jump 5, Maneuver 5 and then overload it with 400 tons of external cargo, it has the exact same performance as if it were a 500 ton ship with Jump 1 and Maneuver 1.
 
I don't have Terry's ship posted. He doesn't see how my 100 tonner works and built one at 500 and that is what I was comparing against.

But essentially, if you build this ship at 100 tons with Jump 5, Maneuver 5 and then overload it with 400 tons of external cargo, it has the exact same performance as if it were a 500 ton ship with Jump 1 and Maneuver 1.
Except it doesn't.

100-ton TL-15 J-5 = 9.5 tons of jump fuel
500-ton TL-15 J-5/5 = 47.5 tons of jump fuel
500-ton TL-15 J-1 = 42.5 tons of jump fuel

Your idea still works just fine though. It can travel quickly (J-5) with 38 tons of cargo lost or it can travel slowly (J-1) with 5 tons of cargo lost.
 
Except it doesn't.

100-ton TL-15 J-5 = 9.5 tons of jump fuel
500-ton TL-15 J-5/5 = 47.5 tons of jump fuel
500-ton TL-15 J-1 = 42.5 tons of jump fuel

Your idea still works just fine though. It can travel quickly (J-5) with 38 tons of cargo lost or it can travel slowly (J-1) with 5 tons of cargo lost.
100 ton TL-15 J-5 (reduced fuel 1)/M-5 - 47.5 tons of fuel, engine weight M-5 = 5 tons, J-5 = 17.5 tons
100 ton with 400 tons freight, 500 tons TL-15 J-1 (reduced fuel 1)/M-1 47.5 tons fuel, engine weight M-5 = 5 tons, J-5 = 17.5 tons
500 ton TL 15 J-1 (reduced fuel 1)/M-1 - 47.5 tons of fuel, engine weight M-5 = 5 tons, J-5 = 17.5 tons
Because of the TL, the TL 15 500 tonner can get better fuel reduction but that is irrelevant for this discussion since we're talking about the same performance with the same engines.

Added quick 500 ton example spreadsheet to show the same values.
 

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Am I going crazy or does the maintenance cost seem a little off. I think the cost of the robots has been removed before the maintenance cost calculation. I think that the maintenance cost of the robots needs to be included unless the robots got the self repair options.

Also I'm a bit dubious about the induction plates taking up no space since they take up 2 vehicle spaces.
 
100 ton TL-15 J-5 (reduced fuel 1)/M-5 - 47.5 tons of fuel, engine weight M-5 = 5 tons, J-5 = 17.5 tons
100 ton with 400 tons freight, 500 tons TL-15 J-1 (reduced fuel 1)/M-1 47.5 tons fuel, engine weight M-5 = 5 tons, J-5 = 17.5 tons
500 ton TL 15 J-1 (reduced fuel 1)/M-1 - 47.5 tons of fuel, engine weight M-5 = 5 tons, J-5 = 17.5 tons
Because of the TL, the TL 15 500 tonner can get better fuel reduction but that is irrelevant for this discussion since we're talking about the same performance with the same engines.

Added quick 500 ton example spreadsheet to show the same values.
I guess, My question would be how often do you actually use the J-5 capability and is it worth the loss of cargo space and of increased fuel from say a J-3 engine. A J-3 engine would allow you to take advantage of the full 3 points of fuel reduction.
 
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