Help needed: Barbaric code of honor

[Mortepierre]

One of my players decided that his character would come from the Black Coast (a Southern Islander, as it is).

Of course, he'll be a Barbarian and is interested by the code of honor. Only problem: the one in the rules is tailor-made for a Cimmerian and, given what HF:B&B&N explains about warfare in that part of the world, wouldn't fit at all.

These barbarians are utterly ruthless and will kill anyone who is in their way, be they warrior, aged, infirm, woman or child, without flinching and without remorse.

So, if you had to rewrite the code for someone like that, what would you change/delete/add?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Although one could come up with a new code of honour - it is much easier to simply say that the majority of Southern Islanders do not have a code of honour as such. The Player Character would be an exception to the rule, making him rather unique (or at least rare) among his people - which is good for a PC to be.

 

[SableWyvern]

I agree with Vincent.

The whole point of a Code of Honour is that puts limits and requirements on a character's behaviour. If they do not wish to abide by those restrictions, then they may not take a Code of Honour.

If a Code of Honour was relative to a culture, then Stygians would qualify for their own Code by slaughtering infants for pleasure and the glory of Set. While that may be an appropriate way for a Stygian to act, I don't think it should provide them with bonuses to saving throws and the like.

While I see no problem with modifying and adapting Codes of Honour to cover a wider range of ethics (after all, it is unfair to say that only two specific codes can be truly honourable), codes should not be altered -- and, especially, not weakened in their strictures -- simply to allow cultural norms to be revered.

A good rule of thumb to consider is how others from a range of cultures would react to a character's behaviour.

If they were forced to accept, even grudgingly, that the character displays a strong sense of honour, then he is probably following a Code worthy of the associated benefits. A character that indiscriminantly kills infants and the infirm will not meet this criteria. He may well be respected, but not for his honour.

In your specific example, the PC, if taking the Barbaric Code as written, would need to overcome the stigma that he would suffer amongst his own people, being viewed as weak and unwilling to do what he must when seeking vengeance, victory, etc...

However, if he sticks to his Code, overcomes the odds (which others will be forced to accept are stacked against him, due to his scruples), and faces ridicule with success and big, bloody spear, then those that would call him weak will have to accept that he is, in fact, not weak in the slightest. If there are a few that are still unwilling to give him the respect he is due, well, that "big, bloody spear" comes in handy again. It is this kind of strength of conviction that the benefits for holding a Code of Honour are based upon.

 

[Mortepierre]

While I see no problem with modifying and adapting Codes of Honour to cover a wider range of ethics (after all, it is unfair to say that only two specific codes can be truly honourable), codes should not be altered -- and, especially, not weakened in their strictures -- simply to allow cultural norms to be revered.

If they were forced to accept, even grudgingly, that the character displays a strong sense of honour, then he is probably following a Code worthy of the associated benefits. A character that indiscriminantly kills infants and the infirm will not meet this criteria. He may well be respected, but not for his honour.

What you both discussed makes a lot of sense. That said, Vincent himself - if I am not mistaken - pointed out in the past that the barbaric code from the rules was specific to Cimmeria and would need to be altered to fit, say, an Aesir or an Hyperborean (not to mention other ethnic groups).

HF:B&B&N makes clear that, during a war, warriors of the Southern Kingdoms display no mercy whatsoever. Does it preclude them from having a code of honor (albeit a rough one)? Not in my opinion. Certainly, it doesn't seem very 'civilized' even by a Cimmerian's standard but I don't recall those who sacked Venarium having been 'merciful' either!

Earth-equivalent like the Zulu were bloodthirsty but still had to obey rules of conduct.

Let's take an example. What if a tribe had to ritually eat the heart of any enemy killed in combat not only because it - supposedly - will grant them the strength of the fallen warrior but also because it will allow the dead to 'live on' through them. Any Aquilonian witnessing such a scene would probably think only of cannibalism while the reality would be quite different.

I don't want to tell him he can't have a code of honor, nor that his only option is to adopt a code noone else among his people follows. It wouldn't make sense. Guess this brings me back to the first option Vincent mentioned: come up with a new code...

 

[Bregales]

I haven't read it yet, but I picked up Signs & Portents #16 which has a piece by Jason Durall called "The Kordavan Way: New Zingaran Chivalric Code of Honour" which "[is] practised by Zingarans who hold to thier old ways, a belief system based on chivalry and noble behavior."

This article hints pretty well that the 2 basic codes of honor are the basis, but variants [based on a specific people] can be had, so I'd agree to go ahead and modify a barbaric code to fit your Southern Islander. Consider Codes of Honor to be like a Paladin's standard: a high set of moral values which sets the PC apart from most of the others. So there may be others from the PC's people who hold to the same code as he will, but they'll be few who will actually LIVE by it.

 

[Mournstorm]

You could also approach it from the aspect of his tribe/crew/whatever consider him a "weakling" for being squeamish or having these alien views. Perhaps he was driven out or split before the others decided to "cull the herd" as it were...

 

[SableWyvern]

Certainly, it doesn't seem very 'civilized' even by a Cimmerian's standard but I don't recall those who sacked Venarium having been 'merciful' either!

Don't know that specific example (my Conan knowledge is easily dwarfed by the average poster here). However, I have always considered that Conan's Code of Honour (among other things) makes him nearly as different from other Cimmerians, as it does Hyborians.

IOW, I don't think most Cimmerians would have a Code of Honour either. While typical Cimmerian life may reflect some aspects of the Barbaric Code, there is still a large disconnect between Cimmerian norms and dedicated Barbaric Honour.

All IMO, of course.

 

[Mortepierre]

Don't know that specific example (my Conan knowledge is easily dwarfed by the average poster here). However, I have always considered that Conan's Code of Honour (among other things) makes him nearly as different from other Cimmerians, as it does Hyborians.

IOW, I don't think most Cimmerians would have a Code of Honour either. While typical Cimmerian life may reflect some aspects of the Barbaric Code, there is still a large disconnect between Cimmerian norms and dedicated Barbaric Honour.

All IMO, of course.

But wasn't the Cimmerian code explained as a set of rules that most Cimmerians followed out of necessity? IIRC, someone even pointed out that while the civilized code was born out of higher standards, the barbaric code (at least the one in Cimmeria) was entirely due to the fact that without it the barbarians themselves would have been unable to survive and prosper in their harsh climate?

That's IMHO the biggest joke behind Conan's actions. 'Civilized men' who witness him, say, save a woman asking for his help would believe he acted honorably while in fact Conan was just following his people's code (albeit in locations where it didn't make sense anymore, but that's Conan to you..)

That would mean the code of honor of a native of the South could be based on practices deemed 'mandatory' for survival in his country too. I think I'll go that way.

 

[SableWyvern]

Mortepierre: that could well be the case (re Cimmerian origins of the Barbaric Code). In any event, if you're happy, I'm happy.