[Hawkmoon] Just Reread the books Languages and Time Period

[Astromancer]

Just restarting the Language thread. While reading The Sword of the Dawn in chapter seven ( I think) in the scene where Hawkmoon and D'Averc are disguised as Asia Comunistians, I saw something interesting. It's stated that there is one language spoken in Granbretan, Europe, and most of the Near East. As no one in the Kampps or Narleen had any trouble understanding Hawkmoon or D'Avrec, I assume the same language is spoken in most of Amerek. I don't know if this languge is English, a natural language would evolve. Several centuries without contect between the two sides of the Atlantic, or widespread literacy, should have made mutual understanding nearly impossible. I suggest that the language of Tragic Europe is an artificial construct meant to resist change and enhance comunication.

As to the dates of the stories, two statements come up. In The Jewel in the Skull we're told that Huon XVIII is part of a dynasty that has lasted three thousand years. Which, if Huon is a Winsor, means the stories take place in the 48th century, because the present royal house came to the throne in 1715.

On the other claw, in The Runestaff , Meliadus thinks to himself that his revolt is the first of its type in "hundreds of centuries. Which implies that the Granbretan monarchy is ten of thousands of years old.

Reactions?

 

[Sabbak]

Reactions?

Very interesting thoughts!
But I fear that M. Moorcock himself is not aware of all the contradictions in his work... or at least that he don't care!

I've read somewhere that he has writen all these books about the Eternal Champion (and especially Hawkmoon) just for the money... Is it true? Perhaps... I must confess that in a "litterature" point of view it's very very weak.

All this "language" question (i.e. everyone speaking the same language throughout the world) is just a way for the author not to make the effort to write something coherent.
As you suggest it's completely impossible that languages don't evolve in such a long time of lack of contact between countries and civilisations. In fact: this is just ridiculous!

Conclusion?
Take your own decisions and state that your own interpretations are true!

Personnaly I've decided that the nobilty, "sorcerers" and avery "high level individuals" in general know a language derived from English that can be compared to the latin of the Middle Age. Common european folks are just speaking their own local idiom, nearly impossible to understand for a foreigner...

Concerning the Huon dynasty, I like the guess of Huon being part of the Windsor family!

 

[Loz]

There are countless idiosyncracies like these throughout MM's work, and its quite often better to simply ignore them rather to try to rationalise them or iron them out. Its part of the charm of the books and can be made part of the charm of a campaign.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

As to the dates of the stories, two statements come up. In The Jewel in the Skull we're told that Huon XVIII is part of a dynasty that has lasted three thousand years. Which, if Huon is a Winsor, means the stories take place in the 48th century, because the present royal house came to the throne in 1715.

Reactions?

Depends on your history of course...

The present Royal house only became "Windsor" during WW1 because George V didn't think a German name sounded so good when we were fighting the Germans. That aside, all the Lists of English monarchs I have seen split between "The House of Hannover" (George I -> Victoria) and "The House of Saxe-Coburg/Windsor" (Edward VII-> Elizabeth II) - On that basis it would be the 50th Century, and approaching the end of the "tragic" Millennium

Or - James Stuart (James VI of Scotland) ascended to the English throne (as James I) in 1603 - maybe Huon traces his claim through the Stuart line and we are "only" in the 47th century - plenty of scope for improvisation there!

 

[Vagabond]

As to the dates of the stories, two statements come up. In The Jewel in the Skull we're told that Huon XVIII is part of a dynasty that has lasted three thousand years. Which, if Huon is a Winsor, means the stories take place in the 48th century, because the present royal house came to the throne in 1715.

On the other claw, in The Runestaff , Meliadus thinks to himself that his revolt is the first of its type in "hundreds of centuries. Which implies that the Granbretan monarchy is ten of thousands of years old.

Reactions?

I bolded the "if". I don't recall it ever being mentioned that Huon is a Windsor.
In which case, both "timelines" can be valid. Huon's line may have come to
power 3000 years prior to the events in The Jewel in the Skull, and
Meliadus can be correct regarding his revolt implying that there has been
a constant monarchy in Granbretan for "hundreds of centuries". It is also
possible that Meliadus is mistaken, or that there have been other revolts
in the past "hundreds of centuries", just none like his.

So, the possibilities are wide open ...

-V

 

[weasel_fierce]

keep in mind mister Moorcock has had the world end at least 5 different times, in different books, often involving the same characters. So I wouldnt get too worried about language incoherencies