Hard(er) Science: Hand Held Weapons

[Hopeless]

On second thoughts, there is a sonic weapon that can
and often does put people to sleep, although there is
currently no hand held version. That weapon is called
"opera". 8)

I have heard of this 'opera'; in fact an even more dangerous weapon exists called "Enya", first you will vomit and then you will fall into a coma.
----

Nope the Godzilla movie however has put me to sleep which is surprising since thats the first time helicopter gunships fighting an over-sized lizard has laid claim to that feat!

Enya however I actually liked, my self-survival instinct is too strong, that and the fact if I listen to any song too many times and I start switching it off ala several Katy Perry tracks...

Now if you threatened me with Jersey Shore or This Way is Essex I'm fairly sure those fall under the juristiction of the Geneva Convention! :roll:

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I would ask what about the flip side of things in the arms race: armor. The comparison may not be similar, but in older times, armor and arms changed in response to each other. Medieval armor fell out of favor in part, because of expense and utility in response to neat, cheap weapons that could put holes in people (crossbows and black powder weapons). The futuristic armors (ablat, reflec, combat and battledress in all their flavors) come about in response to futuristic weapons. Fair enough, gotta keep game balance. Are they realistic in terms of "Hard(er) Science"?

 

[rust]

Are they realistic in terms of "Hard(er) Science"?

The problems in the case of futuristic armour are the futuristic
materials, like for example crystaliron or superdense. I do not
know enough about this field of science to make an educated
guess whether such materials can ever become plausible, but
I suspect that the real world development of armour will not
go simply towards ever harder (and heavier) materials.

 

[dragoner]

Materials Science will move forward, it always does. Here is a look at the US Army version of a future soldier:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/US_Army_powered_armor.jpg

 

[mr31337]

I think reflec will be very unlikely. To not be pretty much useless a very special mirror with a very high polish costing a fortune would need to be very accurately placed. If I recall the (tiny) ones my partner used for laser spectroscopy at Oxford cost in the tens of thousands of pounds range and took months to manufacture to very precise specs. So maybe in the future a way to develop these easily and cheaply is available, even so, with a suit of such mirrors you'd have to align yourself precisely and not move and then everybody has to watch out for the reflection.

Despite my preference for a harder science Traveller I'd allow reflec/ablat in a 3rd Imperium setting on the basis that it's highly improbable, but not impossible. But mostly because I've never seen a player opt to wear only this type of armour in all my years of playing Traveller, has anybody? :lol:

 

[F33D]

I've never seen a player opt to wear only this type of armour in all my years of playing Traveller, has anybody? :lol:

Not any PC's that lived. But seriously I haven't either.

 

[rust]

But mostly because I've never seen a player opt to wear only this type of armour in all my years of playing Traveller, has anybody?

I remember a setting where a clever trader managed to turn
the otherwise quite useless reflec armour into the latest fa-
shion and became rich by selling military surplus reflec to a
planet's nobility ... :shock:

 

[mr31337]

I remember a setting where a clever trader managed to turn
the otherwise quite useless reflec armour into the latest fa-
shion and became rich by selling military surplus reflec to a
planet's nobility ... :shock:

Now that's a proper Traveller's Tale.

 

[Anonymous]

ok, diverging a little if I may?

Has anyone looked at what power a handheld laser would actually need and made an estimate on how big a battery/power pack that would be by extending the curve that battery technology of the last 50 years has taken?

In game lasers do a decent amount of damage but they suffer from a lack of armour penetration, a TL9 rifle doing 5D6 would average 10 points damage against TL9 torso protector, a TL10 ACR with DSAP ignoring 4 points armour would do 11 points. OK, DSAP ammo is expensive, you've recoil and noise to manage with the ACR but the laser rifle is heavy and expensive with heavy and expensive ammo.

Seems like the lasers don't really achieve anything a good slug thrower cant do (until you get to higher TLs but Traveller doesn't expand slug throwers past TL12 gauss rifles which suffer the same doubts as lasers, how do you generate the power and keep it portable?)

(Errata note, the TL9 laser rifle doesn't have a text entry in my CSC so there's no mention of the the power pack weight, just the table (pg 85) and the text for DSAP ammo on pg 76 appears to contradict the DSAP info on pg 51 which give it Super AP, ignoring twice the number of D in armour. I've interpreted this as ACR slug is SAP ignores D6/2 standard cost, ACR armour piercing ignores D6 is 3x the cost and ACR DSAP is Super AP ignores D6x2 armour and costs 10X)

 

[F33D]

ok, diverging a little if I may?

Has anyone looked at what power a handheld laser would actually need and made an estimate on how big a battery/power pack that would be by extending the curve that battery technology of the last 50 years has taken?

Yes and you aren't going to get there with chemical batteries. You'll need alpha, beta & gamma voltaics. Probably coupled to very good variable discharge capacitors. You'll get x number of shots then wait a period of time for the capacitors to refill..

Hope this helps.

 

[mr31337]

Has anyone looked at what power a handheld laser would actually need and made an estimate on how big a battery/power pack that would be by extending the curve that battery technology of the last 50 years has taken?

Ultimately there is a limit on the efficiency of a battery (the total number of electrons you can pack in a given volume). However, as you increase the finesse of the laser cavity you will need less & less power input. We have no way of knowing what that will be in the far future.

If you mean power output then probably 1+ kilowatts (about 6600 times the power of the recording laser diode in your DVD) would make an acceptable hand held laser weapon of the future.

 

[Anonymous]

I figured it'd be at least a two part system, a fast discharge unit and then something to recharge that. The speed at which the weapon was charged I can see generating a lot of heat that would need to be managed with higher TL's making it more efficient but it will up a soldiers IR profile.

Any idea on weights involved f33d?

 

[Anonymous]

If you mean power output then probably 1+ kilowatts (about 6600 times the power of the recording laser diode in your DVD) would make an acceptable hand held laser weapon of the future.

ok and to get a reasonable number of shots at that power how big a "battery" will it need at current TL and at TL9?

(ignoring how fast the battery could discharge into the weapon for the moment and the input vs output efficiency)

 

[mr31337]

I figured it'd be at least a two part system, a fast discharge unit and then something to recharge that. The speed at which the weapon was charged I can see generating a lot of heat that would need to be managed with higher TL's making it more efficient but it will up a soldiers IR profile.

Water cooled heat sinks are used today, we can only guess how it would be done in the future.

 

[Anonymous]

Water cooled heat sinks are used today, we can only guess how it would be done in the future.

i'd guess that some kind of supercooled gas would be the way as liquids will weigh more

 

[mr31337]

ok and to get a reasonable number of shots at that power how big a "battery" will it need at current TL and at TL9?(ignoring how fast the battery could discharge into the weapon for the moment)

Too many variables.

 

[F33D]

I figured it'd be at least a two part system, a fast discharge unit and then something to recharge that. The speed at which the weapon was charged I can see generating a lot of heat that would need to be managed with higher TL's making it more efficient but it will up a soldiers IR profile.

Any idea on weights involved f33d?

Actually, not much heat. As to weight, probably a pound.

 

[Anonymous]

for the power pack?

 

[F33D]

for the power pack?

Yes. That includes the weight of the shielding. You have no idea of the power of the atom. <Darth Vader voice> :mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, which would take it down to regular magazine weights...

From my very very brief google search on alpha, beta & gamma voltaics there was little talked about with regard to output. As they're still in their infancy that's understandable but containment of a radioactive source weighing that little?