Granbretan (really Chaos?) and Mass Combat Rules

[Agonovos]

Hello,
i´m unsure about the Dark Empire. For me they look like an perverted Form of Law: they have an strict Order, make themselves equal through the Mask´s and kill ervery body who deny to join (and everybody who see not right for their "Standarts").
But the Sourcebook suggest they are chaotic (the Sword Magistrate shines when there are Chaos-Servants near, her the Soldiers of the Bull Order in "Hunters of Granbretan").
Maybe i lost some important points, so i will glad to hear your opinions.


And have somebody uses the Mass Combat Rules: how did you make the Position of the Units: note them on a Tabelle on a big piece of paper so your Players can decide their moves? I will avoid that my Players can´t understand the situation. Yes there should be confusion on a Battel Field, but not on the Gametable :wink: .

Thanks for your Answers.

 

[Da Boss]

I must admit I always took the Young Kingdoms to be a place overun by Chaos at its worse by the end of the novels and Tragic Millenium Earth as place devestated by Law and the Dark Empire is a twisted embodiment of a form of Law. Thus keeping the theme that too much of either is not a good idea and the Balance is what you want.

 

[Agonovos]

Hello Da Boss,
thanks for your reply! So I from this point there are not many (or strong) Manifestiations in Tragic Europe.
Did you have some Chaos-Followers in your Games? And what are the goals of them?

Maybe there are some other opinions too? :roll: :roll:

 

[Da Boss]

Most of my campaigns have started in the Young Kingdoms with trips to the Tragic Millenium or by people from there. In general most artefacts and devices I have used from that world have been technological even if they are twisted or "beyond understanding" technology. I usually go along with the rules about Strong Law having a deteremental effect on magical or Chaotic artefacts (Started I think in the Shattered Isle Adventure).

 

[tarkhan bey]

Yeah Boss, I think that Shattered Isle is where this notion first appeared, although it reappeared later in Rogue Mistress as well.

I had always gone with you guys interpretation previously about the Tragic Millenium being the result of extreme science/Law gone mad. However, having read what Loz has to say on the subject I find myself more willing to accept that Granbretan has been twisted by the powers of Chaos.

IIRC, MM himself actually states that Granbretan's pacts are with Chaos in White Wolf's Son. This is, however, an alternate Tragic Millenium and so I suppose the one we are all familiar with could still be the result of the mental degeneration of the reigning Law Lord(a bit like Miggea).

On the subject of the mass combat rules. I just used a large sheet of paper with basic scenary drawn in pen and troop dispositions in pencil.
It worked fine.

 

[Da Boss]

Indeed - although the result is a chaotic state of affairs in the Dark empires ramage across Europe and beyond - I don't see much evidence of Chaos worship as such. The Gods seem quite vague I like to have a place (like more recent works on Vilmir) to show that overpowerful Law is as bad as Chaos.

The system in Granbretan seems to be Lawful - although mad - and IIRC they shun physical mutation? (except of course in Huon)
Mass combat - I usually have to mostly narrative -with the player having encounters within larger conflicts so often their actions can change (or not) the course of the battle.

Either use sketch maps - or really organised - figures

 

[Loz]

The gods in Granbretan are distant deities that have very little day to day significance; the most important force being the Beast Order. None of them are chaos or lawful deities (as understood from the wider perspective of the saga); indeed, the forces of Law and Chaos intrude little on the Tragic Milennium - although that does not mean that the Runestaff is not a force for the Balance (which it is).

There's always been a tendency for people to try to paint Granbretanians as Lawful versions of Pan Tangians (which are unequivocally aligned with Chaos), but I've never believed that argument. If Law was truly strong in Hawkmoon's world, I'd expect to see some of the Lords of Law dominant there - and it would be a natural haven for Miggea (indeed, I've got Miggea in my Hawkmoon Straw Dogs campaign at the moment - but not as a goddess of Granbretan). But a lot of Granbretanian tendencies veer towards the chaotic, for all the order exhibited in their social structure.

But, of course, Your Hawkmoon Should Vary.