Gorn Fleet - Comments Welcomed

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

If you have time to get a few games in, I would like you to take a trip here;

http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/27411/30175.html?1332882441

Basically, in a nutshell, the chaps at ADB want to modify the Gorn's Lumbering to a Wallowing rule.

I believe Gorns will be made far more characterful if they retain Lumbering, but gain the ability to weather nasty amounts of damage. Fits in with their fluff, makes the fleet interesting/exciting, creates tactical play.

Please take a triop to the link above and weigh in!

 

[Jean]

Just a few of comments.

Some folks have had trouble finding the registration link for the BBS. It's in the left menu under Utilities. Do remember that we ask that you use your real name. People tend to be more polite if they are addressing Jean Sexton instead of She Who Shoves LDR Into Asteroids.

The topic that Matthew referenced is for playtest reports only. As SVC told me -- "I want them to roll dice!"

SVC did open a topic for "gut feelings" because we know that folks have those. If you post a gut feeling under playtest, it'll get moved and I'll be forced to give you a "mommy look" and send you to bed with no brownies!

We really do want playtest results so we can fix the Gorns once and for all. Thanks for your help in this.

Jean
WebMom

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Hi Matt! Did you want us to test out both options (SVCs and Yours)? I see his as a rule but wasnt sure which of your "tough" rules we should be using? The side arcs are 1/2 damage? Anything else for tough?

Thanks!

 

[McKinstry]

Hey PG - Gorn v Kzinti or Klingons Sunday?

Matt - it would help if we could see the precise two alternates you want played? Is SVC's Wallowing rule exactly that expressed by Scoutdad? Is your Tough attribute to treat any shots on the Gorn just as if they were Klingon shields except instead of the F arc for Klingons we use the P,S & A arcs for the Gorn?

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

Hey PG - Gorn v Kzinti or Klingons Sunday?

Sure! Lets see which rule(s) Matt wants us to test.

 

[Digger]

The way I see it to use an old comparison:

Gorn = Narn

Klingon = Centauri

So in answer the the question - Lumbering, Yes; but make 'em tough as hell! :twisted:

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

As i see Matt's idea (which i quite like - as to me it fits with the 'fluff' elements), the 'Tough' rule is the same as the Klingon Front Shield rule with the FOLLOWING change -

It applies the the Damage Against HULL only from the side Arcs (port/starboard). Correct me if i'm wrong, Matt.

So any ship/weapon system firing at a Gorn vessel would get normal hits against shields, and then once though, the pain would start - as all damage (as with Klingon shield would be halved before rolling on the damage table. So 7pts of damage getting though would actually only provide 4 rolls on the damage table.

This would make Gorn ships slow to die (and could also be used to show the Hydran 'APR Shield' ships when they appear), but not unbeatable in general - still in trouble if you have a KR behind you, as they know your going to try to turn to flank (damage reduced).

ScoutDad's rule also good (though i prefer the 'Tough' rule - it's simple and that its Gorn), it's basically a modified old style 'Lumbering' that allows more turns - ActA Lumbering originally stated that you had 1 turn of whatever degree you had with that ship (usually 45), that you could ONLY use as the last bit of your move. So where you moved 3" or 12" you only got one turn, and that was at the end of your movement.

To be fair, i've played games with Gorn (and as yet haven't tried either of these options) and had little issue with the lumbering trait as yet - always played battle type games on an open board as learning rules/rule changes, so haven't really needed to manevuer much -, and other than the leaisurely turn around the board the lumberers make (usually reloading torps) whilst contributing Phasers, it had no effect other than torp firing times (which to be fair reduces the ships combat effectiveness if you can only fire the Main Weapons once in a game as you can't get/spen too long getting in arc).

I'll trial both options, and i know which i i prefer (Tough Gorns), but i'll not sure that it's the right one - YET :? :lol: :wink: .

One thing i just thought off, ScoutDad's idea really may not help to much, but will make Gorns a 'fast fleet', as you'll generally be moving 12" every turn if you want to turn (must Gorns have turn 6).

 

[Captain Jonah]

Hi guys,

Basically, in a nutshell, the chaps at ADB want to modify the Gorn's Lumbering to a Wallowing rule.

I believe the Gorn will be made far more characterful if they retain Lumbering, but gain the ability to weather nasty amounts of damage. Fits in with their fluff, makes the fleet interesting/exciting, creates tactical play.

Yay. Some Gorn Love at last. :lol:

Do remember that we ask that you use your real name. People tend to be more polite if they are addressing Jean Sexton instead of She Who Shoves LDR Into Asteroids.

Well there are those who would say shoving the LDR into Asteroids is a bit rude as well :lol:

We really do want playtest results so we can fix the Gorns once and for all. Thanks for your help in this.

Jean
WebMom

Well speaking as someone who would really like to see the Gorn balanced as a force in the ACTA Star Fleet verse "Thank you".

Gut feelings.

The change to the movement (Please Please don't call it Wallowing, we get enough slow and lumbering jokes now, we don't need to add new ones) is basically Gorn Cruisers and up have a HET number of 9 not 8. As has been mentioned on the BBS apart from the DN and BB all the Lumbering Gorn are Turn mode 6 so meet the restrictions of two 45 degree turns and the second after 12" of movement anyway.

So it means as Gorn Racial Traits we get a HET of 9 for all our cruiser sized ships AND minus 1 initiative. That’s two down sides with no apparent compensation anywhere in the fleet. And this is the solution to the current imbalance :shock:

Matt really wasn’t joking about the Gorn Hate :roll:


Re toughness. Its not clearly noted but seems to say P/S/A fire that hits the hull is halved round up. Presumably this is covered by the split arc rule that allows the Klingon’s to call Front arc so the Gorn can use split arcs to take hits on the sides.

Matt can you clarify is this exactly like the Klingon rule (for simplicity I would think yes) in that roll to hit or seeking weapon damage, half, apply to ship. It makes a difference to crits if you half the damage “After” you have rolled on the hull damage.

Would I be safe in assuming that extra damage from Criticals is full damage since it represents things exploding inside the super tough hull.

It looks interesting. Need a fair few games to try it out though, maybe time to get Scoutdad and his testing team to start playing Gorn, you can use counters guys

It does conjure up images of Gorn ships, massive slabs of hull plating, huge internal bracing and structure, enemy ships sweeping round the flanks and stern of the Gorn fleet, weapons fire barely scratching the paintwork and then the front facing areas with huge open areas mounting massive plasma torpedo launchers and picture windows so the Gorn can watch the plasma’s being fired :lol:

 

[MongooseMatt]

Keeper Nilbog's explanation of Tough is correct - use this combined with the current fleet list (so you keep Lumbering - Tough needs a downside!).

This is my preference as what it takes with one hand it gives with the other, it makes Gorns unique and characterful, and it will force tactics (we always like that) for both the Gorn player and the opposition.

That is my pitch, go ahead and test it, then report back on the link above!

 

[Jean]

Well there are those who would say shoving the LDR into Asteroids is a bit rude as well :lol:

In defense, they shot my ship first!

I've seen some of you over on the BBS. Welcome! Do keep reports coming and if the "Wallowing" concept is chosen, I'll see if I can get SVC to call it something else such as "Ungainly" or if you guys come up with a better name, I'll propose that.

Jean

 

[Captain Jonah]

Keeper Nilbog's explanation of Tough is correct - use this combined with the current fleet list (so you keep Lumbering - Tough needs a downside!).

This is my preference as what it takes with one hand it gives with the other, it makes Gorns unique and characterful, and it will force tactics (we always like that) for both the Gorn player and the opposition.

That is my pitch, go ahead and test it, then report back on the link above!

Lumbering is the Downside, I thought Tough was to compensate for it not the other way round :wink:

The BB suggested it was both P/S and P/S/A, any reason why not aft. People hardly need encouraging to get into the aft arc as it is, the Klingon’s seem to live there :lol:

From a fluff and common sense point of view it seems odd that you can build ships which are massively tough in the directions that you get less attacks from while remaining vulnerable to attacks from the one direction everyone is working hard to attack you from anyway?

I can see being careful turning to face an enemy since they are firing down your throat where you are far more vulnerable while being less concerned with ships getting behind you since they are just pounding on the reinforced hull. Sort of the reverse of the Klingon’s where they want to be facing you but you don’t want to be facing them when your shields are down, makes it interesting with F arc plasmas.

Reinforcing the flanks covers a large area of the ships, far more than just the aft saucer. Or is it more of those huge picture windows the Gorn fit to the cruisers.

Anyway I’m very pleased to see this being looked into. :lol:

First Drones, now the Gorn Fleet.

Humm what next :wink:

 

[Jean]

Please remember that both Matthew and SVC have asked that the reports be compiled in this topic: http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/27411/30175.html?1332931756

We need them all in one place so that both Matthew and SVC can see the reports. They chose the BBS, so please respect those wishes.

Thanks for your help in this. I feel confident that with some of the brightest minds and best gamers in the world that we'll fix the Gorns (in a good way).

Jean
WebMom

 

[Captain Jonah]

Please remember that both Matthew and SVC have asked that the reports be compiled in this topic: http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/27411/30175.html?1332931756

We need them all in one place so that both Matthew and SVC can see the reports. They chose the BBS, so please respect those wishes.

Thanks for your help in this. I feel confident that with some of the brightest minds and best gamers in the world that we'll fix the Gorns (in a good way).

Jean
WebMom

Brightest minds and smartest gamers, you must have met us. :lol:

Erm could we change the terminology a bit please. Find a solution or resolve the issue. Talking about getting the Gorn fixed just makes me want to cross my legs and wince for some reason :shock:

 

[MongooseMatt]

From a fluff and common sense point of view it seems odd that you can build ships which are massively tough in the directions that you get less attacks from while remaining vulnerable to attacks from the one direction everyone is working hard to attack you from anyway?

Think of it this way...

You could reason you don't need so much beefing up in the directiomn most of your weaponry goes, as whatever is in front of you won't be there for long.

Also, perhaps they are equally tough all round but the design is such that that hits that go down the length of the structure can be far more damaging than those going across (they can get at more of the internal structure, again like 19th Century ships - check out what the Royal Sovereign did to the Santa Anna...).

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

In regard to the reinforced side issue, i have to say that i was thinking the same as Matt, in that the structural reinforcment allowed hit for the side to be less damaging, but 'through and through' hits would effect us more. If something gets behind you, move the ship first - don't actually move it, just turn 45 to bring that reinforced structure into play, and wait to see what he does. We have Plasma and Phasers that will reach on the medium + sized ships, then any other ship that has a problem with the tailgater.

Deep fried KR is an option :evil:

 

[Captain Jonah]

From a fluff and common sense point of view it seems odd that you can build ships which are massively tough in the directions that you get less attacks from while remaining vulnerable to attacks from the one direction everyone is working hard to attack you from anyway?

Think of it this way...

You could reason you don't need so much beefing up in the directiomn most of your weaponry goes, as whatever is in front of you won't be there for long.

Also, perhaps they are equally tough all round but the design is such that that hits that go down the length of the structure can be far more damaging than those going across (they can get at more of the internal structure, again like 19th Century ships - check out what the Royal Sovereign did to the Santa Anna...).

Possible. The problems with the age of gunpowder and sail was that the sides of the ships had a foot or more of well seasoned oak then they put this ruddy great captains cabin on the back. With no internal bulkheads shots through the captains windows bounced the length of the ship smashing everything in sight, a shot through the side at most took out two guns or so.

So now we are mighty Gorn sailors in ships of oak with black powder plasma launchers :lol:

 

[MongooseMatt]

So now we are mighty Gorn sailors in ships of oak with black powder plasma launchers :lol:

I'd play that game...

 

[Captain Jonah]

So now we are mighty Gorn sailors in ships of oak with black powder plasma launchers :lol:

I'd play that game...

When the fleet box arrives I'll see of I can do a conversion of an unwanted CL to a three master 8)

 

[Totenkopf]

So now we are mighty Gorn sailors in ships of oak with black powder plasma launchers :lol:

I'd play that game...

When the fleet box arrives I'll see of I can do a conversion of an unwanted CL to a three master 8)

Or make it a theme for your fleet

 

[Totenkopf]

I like Matt's idea for tough on P/S facings, because it would give the Gorn something unique and does fit the fluff. That said...might still need to figure a way for a Gorn fleet to be able to take enough turns so they don't fly themselves off the table.