Gold Pieces for Credits

[Rick]

How about this?
1 Copper piece cp with 25 grams of copper = Cr1 (40 weighs 1kg)
1 Silver Piece sp with 7.5 grams of silver = Cr25 (133.6 weighs 1 kg)
1 Silver Dollar $ with 30 grams of silver = Cr100 (33.4 weighs 1 kg)
1 Gold Piece gp with 10 grams of gold = Cr1,000 (100 weighs 1 kg)
1 Platinum Piece pp with 50 grams of platinum = Cr10,000 (20 weighs 1 kg)
How does this sound?"

Naive.

How does 1 Gold Piece = 6 months suspended sentence for trying to sell non-hallmarked worked gold and/or not reporting treasure trove.
300 Gold Pieces = 2-3 years custodial sentence for same.

:twisted:

It may be a little bit in jest, but if those gold coins are not currency, then you will have some problems with selling them openly. The seller would likely be held for questioning, the gold impounded and, unless he could provide either proof of ownership or prove that he found them on his own land, he's likely to face being fined or imprisoned.

 

[F33D]

It may be a little bit in jest, but if those gold coins are not currency, then you will have some problems with selling them openly. The seller would likely be held for questioning, the gold impounded and, unless he could provide either proof of ownership or prove that he found them on his own land, he's likely to face being fined or imprisoned.

Na. In the 3I, gold as priced in the trade rules has almost no value. Most likely as it is created not mined.

 

[Reynard]

11,000 systems with mainworlds plus lots of non-mainworld planets, moons and belts. Market has been flooded with precious metals for millennia. Cheaper to mine.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

How about this?
1 Copper piece cp with 25 grams of copper = Cr1 (40 weighs 1kg)
1 Silver Piece sp with 7.5 grams of silver = Cr25 (133.6 weighs 1 kg)
1 Silver Dollar $ with 30 grams of silver = Cr100 (33.4 weighs 1 kg)
1 Gold Piece gp with 10 grams of gold = Cr1,000 (100 weighs 1 kg)
1 Platinum Piece pp with 50 grams of platinum = Cr10,000 (20 weighs 1 kg)
How does this sound?"

Naive.

How does 1 Gold Piece = 6 months suspended sentence for trying to sell non-hallmarked worked gold and/or not reporting treasure trove.
300 Gold Pieces = 2-3 years custodial sentence for same.

:twisted:

It may be a little bit in jest, but if those gold coins are not currency, then you will have some problems with selling them openly. The seller would likely be held for questioning, the gold impounded and, unless he could provide either proof of ownership or prove that he found them on his own land, he's likely to face being fined or imprisoned.

I look at the price of starships, and you need to be literally a multi-millionaire to own them, if you price them in gold pieces, they look more reasonable under these exchange rates.

Why would gold be an illegal substance? Is everyone, wearing gold jewelry, arrested?
Imperial police must be very pervasive to be chasing after gold sellers everywhere in the Imperium. I sold some gold a couple years back and didn't get arrested for it.

 

[Condottiere]

It would be as prevalent as those who sell sterling silver jewellery at swap meets.

 

[Reynard]

"Why would gold be an illegal substance? Is everyone, wearing gold jewelry, arrested?"

Franklin D. Roosevelt made it illegal to own more than $100 in gold in 1933. This was lifted in 1974 by President Gerald Ford. So it does happen in the real world.

 

[Rick]

If you look at the gold and silver jewellery, it will be marked to show origin, date etc. You'll find it is illegal in the modern world to sell gold without it, unless it is 'treasure trove', in which case the government registers it and takes a large cut of the sale.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

"Why would gold be an illegal substance? Is everyone, wearing gold jewelry, arrested?"

Franklin D. Roosevelt made it illegal to own more than $100 in gold in 1933. This was lifted in 1974 by President Gerald Ford. So it does happen in the real world.

Would this be a law the Imperium would be capable of enforcing? I don't think the FDR model of government would work very well in an 11,000 world Imperium. the Imperium is basically a defense pact, it doesn't do social security, it doesn't provide welfare benefits for its citizens, and I doubt it could regulate the gold trade. The resources expended in doing so, would leave that much less in providing for the defense of the realm!

 

[Reynard]

I was making a point that such things are possible and what I quoted has actually happened. Something similar is there fore possible in a game.

 

[F33D]

"Why would gold be an illegal substance? Is everyone, wearing gold jewelry, arrested?"

Franklin D. Roosevelt made it illegal to own more than $100 in gold in 1933. This was lifted in 1974 by President Gerald Ford. So it does happen in the real world.

If one bothered to read the exec orders/laws one would find that gold for art (jewelry, manufacturing, etc.,) was exempt.

 

[Condottiere]

The stated reason for the order was that hard times had caused "hoarding" of gold, stalling economic growth and making the depression worse.[1] The New York Times, on April 6, 1933, p. 16, wrote under the headline "Hoarding of Gold", "The Executive Order issued by the President yesterday amplifies and particularizes his earlier warnings against hoarding. On March 6, taking advantage of a wartime statute that had not been repealed, he issued Presidential Proclamation 2039 that forbade the hoarding 'of gold or silver coin or bullion or currency,' under penalty of $10,000 and/or up to five to ten years imprisonment."[2]

The main rationale behind the order was actually to remove the constraint on the Federal Reserve which prevented it from increasing the money supply during the depression; the Federal Reserve Act required 40% gold backing of Federal Reserve Notes issued. By the late 1920s, the Federal Reserve had almost hit the limit of allowable credit (in the form of Federal Reserve demand notes) that could be backed by the gold in its possession (see Great Depression). If gold can’t be legally owned, then it can’t be legally redeemed. If it can’t be legally redeemed, then it can’t constrain the central bank.[3]

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

The stated reason for the order was that hard times had caused "hoarding" of gold, stalling economic growth and making the depression worse.[1] The New York Times, on April 6, 1933, p. 16, wrote under the headline "Hoarding of Gold", "The Executive Order issued by the President yesterday amplifies and particularizes his earlier warnings against hoarding. On March 6, taking advantage of a wartime statute that had not been repealed, he issued Presidential Proclamation 2039 that forbade the hoarding 'of gold or silver coin or bullion or currency,' under penalty of $10,000 and/or up to five to ten years imprisonment."[2]

The main rationale behind the order was actually to remove the constraint on the Federal Reserve which prevented it from increasing the money supply during the depression; the Federal Reserve Act required 40% gold backing of Federal Reserve Notes issued. By the late 1920s, the Federal Reserve had almost hit the limit of allowable credit (in the form of Federal Reserve demand notes) that could be backed by the gold in its possession (see Great Depression). If gold can’t be legally owned, then it can’t be legally redeemed. If it can’t be legally redeemed, then it can’t constrain the central bank.[3]

I don't think the Imperium would have that problem.

 

[Reynard]

"If one bothered to read the exec orders/laws one would find that gold for art (jewelry, manufacturing, etc.,) was exempt."

"The Executive Order 6102 made it illegal for anyone to own more than $100 worth of gold."

Unless the rich (as usual) were exempt or there were pieces in a special category for historical reasons. The average 99% probably didn't have enough gold collectively to effect much of anything.

 

[F33D]

"If one bothered to read the exec orders/laws one would find that gold for art (jewelry, manufacturing, etc.,) was exempt."

"The Executive Order 6102 made it illegal for anyone to own more than $100 worth of gold."

Unless the rich (as usual) were exempt or there were pieces in a special category for historical reasons. The average 99% probably didn't have enough gold collectively to effect much of anything.

:lol: Keep reading.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

"If one bothered to read the exec orders/laws one would find that gold for art (jewelry, manufacturing, etc.,) was exempt."

"The Executive Order 6102 made it illegal for anyone to own more than $100 worth of gold."

Unless the rich (as usual) were exempt or there were pieces in a special category for historical reasons. The average 99% probably didn't have enough gold collectively to effect much of anything.

But what the heck does that have to do with Traveller or the Imperium? "Emperor Roosevelt" wasn't running the Imperium. By the way, if the characters own a starship, they are not part of the average 99%. I don't think the Imperium Nobility would have an interest in outlawing the sale of gold, as they are the ones running the Imperium Stephon, is not like Roosevelt, if he wanted to outlaw the sale of gold, the nobles would overthrow him for being too tyrannical and oppressive.

Ever hear of Laura Ingles Wilder, if you watched "Little House on the Prairie", you'd know about her, she was a real person, and her books was what the show was based on. Well I happen to live in her home town, or at least the town where she ended up in, Danbury, Connecticut, in her later years she turned out to be a critic of Roosevelt, she thought he was too oppressive, probably outlawing gold ownership was one of those things she didn't like about his administration.

 

[Condottiere]

FDR's decision is based on clearing the bottleneck of the money supply.

One loophole is declaring the golden object a work of art.

You could only enforce a ban on a local level, and since gold is no longer currency, it might be a religious reason, like only the clerical class can wear objects made from them.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

FDR's decision is based on clearing the bottleneck of the money supply.

One loophole is declaring the golden object a work of art.

One shouldn't have to look for loop holes to exercise one's natural property rights. There is nothing dangerous about gold, so it is none of the government's business whether you can own gold or not. The FDR experiment was an unnatural constriction on one's property rights. So the government didn't have enough gold to back its currency, so it steals yours? There are too many things the government thinks it has the right to do which it does not!

 

[simonh]

Really unbelievable. Controls on gold trading were only in place to try to protect the gold standard, and as soon as that was abandoned the controls went away. Who here things the 3I is on the gold standard?

Simon Hibbs

 

[simonh]

Na. In the 3I, gold as priced in the trade rules has almost no value. Most likely as it is created not mined.

The situation on that is not clear. Merchant Price is a core book and so not 3I specific and can't be taken as OTU canon, meanwhile there are reasons to believe from competing OTU sources that gold is a highly valuable commodity. There is no definitive canon on it, so I think it's a matter of personal preference.

Furthermore if the cheap bulk artificial manufacture of elements theory were true, it would have massive, pervasive consequences for the economics of the OTU that would basically invalidate vast swathes of the economic assumptions behind a lot of the setting. I think a fundamental change to the setting like that requires more evidence than one number in one table.

Simon Hibbs

 

[F33D]

Na. In the 3I, gold as priced in the trade rules has almost no value. Most likely as it is created not mined.

The situation on that is not clear. Merchant Price is a core book and so not 3I specific

Merchant Prince is 3I specific. It has to be setting specific to list mandated prices for freight & passengers. It matches Passage listed in Char generation for 3I.