Gladiatorial Games held where?

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Anonymous

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This is in response to a question from my CONAN RPG thread on ENWorld:

I'm of the mind that nearly any country might host gladiatorial games, but most would not be on a grandiose Roman Empire scale or permanent basis. For Romanesque spectacles, I'd say Koth, Nemedia, (western) Shem, Stygia, Turan, Zamora or Zingara off the top of my head. Koth is ruled by a power-mad evil king and the sorcerer Tsotha-lanti, so games make a good idea for distracting the people. For western Shem, any of the Meadow Shemite city-states might fit, but Asgalun, the largest (and closest to the coast), might be the best fit. Rival arenas could be another form of jealousy between the city-states; a good springoboard for adventure hooks. Stygia has a colisseum in a terrible Leonard Carpenter pastiche (CONAN THE GREAT?), and everyone knows they are evil and rejoice in the suffering of others. Turan is decadent and Zamora corrupt, so both make good bets as well. Nemedia is said to have a private palace arena in Robert Jordan's CONAN THE DEFENDER, which is normally reserved for feeding criminals to the wolves. Zingara is ruled by a ruthless dictator (read Karl Edward Wagner's ROAD OF KINGS) who needs to keep the people distracted.

Any official REH gladiatorial references? Any from the pastiches or comics? Any advice? Agree or disagree with my ideas?
 
I don't recall any direct REH gladiatorial references. I would say, however, that large, public arenas with gladiatorial combat and circuses and such would be fairly limited. Private arenas of the very wealthy would be more common, with "pit-fighting," as in the movies, predominating in semi-civilized areas.

Asgard, Vanaheim, Cimmeria would not have either arenas or pit fighting, save in the most "advanced" semi-civilized towns (and perhaps along the borders in Cimmeria). The northern barbarians would simply pick fights in the open streets with people who offend them (like in the movie "The 13th Warrior") and that would provide more than enough blood to slake even abarbarian's thirst. The Picts reserve all such "blood sports" for the realm of religious ceremony, with victims either being eaten by or switching minds with animals from the vast wilderness.

The semi-civilized Hyperboreans might have some small stone arenas, for gatherings, entertainment, and punishment, but not vast colosseums. Their "games" would probably consist of feeding criminals to polar bears or winter wolves. The border kingdom probably has a few wooden arenas (large pits, really) as it seems an area where blood sports might be popular.

Arena combat is not a very Mitraic kind of thing, so I wouldn't see any large public ones in Aquilonia, nor in Nemedia or Ophir, the strongest Mitra states. These states have theatres, large stone ones that rival those of Rome. Certain depraved nobles also may well have built their own small arenas, for their own terrible entertainments or for secret punishment of enemies.

I would say Zingara certainly has arenas, though they would be used more often for bull fighting and such animal entertainments than for human battles.

Brythunia probably has pit fights (as in the movies), being semi-civilizeed enough to have such.

The real arena battles would indeed be found in the middle lands, where Mitra worship is wekest (or non-existent) and the terrible southern magics and religions do not hold sway. Argos, Shem, Koth, and Corinthia would have full-scale arenas and gladiatorial traditions. The culture would be strongest in Koth, then Shem, then Corinthia, then Argos (which would also follow Zingaran traditions). In an earlier D&D Hyborian campaign (set during the time of Conan II) I had the largest arena in the world placed in Khorshemish, recently built by a successor to Strabonius; it was known as the "Strabonium." Arena battles in Koth and Shem are flashy affairs, veritable circus orgies of blood and death, while those in Corinthia and Argos are more business-like. In Corinthia the games are run by each independent city, and the gladiators fight for their city-state, while in Argos all gladiators are free men fighting for money and fame. In Koth and Shem it is a mix, and includes slave gladiators, recreations of battles, mass slayings of heretics by lions, and even the massivs "sea battles," which are hideously expensive in Shem.

Some of the eastern Shemite cities have arenas, including Zamboula, but the tradition is weak and the entertainment not as bloodthirsty.

Stygia and the Black Kingdoms lack arenas, as such public festivals are rare in those lands. In Stygia it is so because the needs of the people do not cross the minds of the rulers; you obey or you die, and because of the inculcation of the Cult of Set, most of them follow willingly. In the Black Kingdoms the situation is much like that of the Picts to the north; blood sport entertainment is reserved for specific religious festivals, and settlements do not get large enough to necessitate an arena or even a pit; victims are enver given a fair chance to fight back, after all.

The idea of gladiatorial combat has not really sunk in to the Turanian mindset, save amongst the most knowledgeable and depraved nobles, who might have their own small arenas.

Kosala has blood sports, of a sort, though this consists of a master strangler publicly strangling a sacrifice, prisoner of war, or criminal. Of course, the stranglers were from Yota-Pong, so the other cities of Kosala might well have other methods of execution, including traditional blood sports, or even something weird, say, nude sacrificial victims are each given a cat 'o nine tails or scourge and must fight each other in an arena, with the last man standing given his freedom. That would be quite a bloody spectacle...

Though historical India had arenas of sorts, I doubt such is found regularly in Vendhya. Perhaps the Kshatriya have some sort of formalized dueling system that could be considered a public spectacle. Or maybe one of the more vile gods of that land (Hyborian Kali, for example) have blood pits where victims battle for the honor of being slain mercifully.

Hyrkanians are not into blood sports. They don't need them. They slaughter entire cities during war, so blood sports are considered a bit too sedate and civilized. The various independent semi-civilized city-states of the Hyrkanian Coast, though, probably have pit fighting at the least, if not full-blown arenas. Being a strange mix of cultures, and semi-savage in character, blood sports are sure to be a popular entertainment.

Khitai and Kamuja are a bit of a mystery. Khitai is huge, with many different cultures, so anything is possible.
 
J-Star said:
Iron_Chef said:
Stygia has a colisseum in a terrible Leonard Carpenter pastiche (CONAN THE GREAT?)

I remember that one... it's Conan the Gladiator, and it's appalling!

That's the one! I passed that one up after giving it a quick skimming at the used bookstore. Wasn't even worth half cover price. On the other hand, I've been really happy with the John Maddox Roberts Conans I've read so far (also picked up used). John C. Hocking's CONAN AND THE EMERALD LOTUS was really, really good; it was worth the full price I paid for it new on Amazon. You can get most of the Conan books new for $1 off at http://www.overstock.com if you don't feel like haunting used bookstores. :wink:
 
Iron_Chef said:
J-Star said:
Iron_Chef said:
Stygia has a colisseum in a terrible Leonard Carpenter pastiche (CONAN THE GREAT?)

I remember that one... it's Conan the Gladiator, and it's appalling!

That's the one! I passed that one up after giving it a quick skimming at the used bookstore. Wasn't even worth half cover price. On the other hand, I've been really happy with the John Maddox Roberts Conans I've read so far (also picked up used). John C. Hocking's CONAN AND THE EMERALD LOTUS was really, really good; it was worth the full price I paid for it new on Amazon. You can get most of the Conan books new for $1 off at http://www.overstock.com if you don't feel like haunting used bookstores. :wink:

I agree... John Maddox Roberts' Conan novels are fairly decent. I've heard EMERALD LOTUS is good, but I haven't picked it up. Of course, no one can compare with REH. I'm so glad I have the new book in hand. My shelf is filled with pastiche novels... it's time for the real deal now.
 
J-Star said:
I agree... John Maddox Roberts' Conan novels are fairly decent. I've heard EMERALD LOTUS is good, but I haven't picked it up. Of course, no one can compare with REH. I'm so glad I have the new book in hand. My shelf is filled with pastiche novels... it's time for the real deal now.

CONAN AND THE EMERALD LOTUS reads like a dream. Action-packed, fast-paced fun! Wish Hocking had written more Conan books.
 
JamesMishler said:
I
Arena combat is not a very Mitraic kind of thing...

Is there any basis in the REH stories for what seems to be a common view of Mitra as a Christ-like figure? The RPG seems to propagate this with its ban on Mitraic priests using sorcery. I'd have thought Mitra was pretty obviously based on Persian/Roman Mithras, son of the Sun God, an 'honourable' deity but hardly Christian in attitudes.
 
S'mon said:
Is there any basis in the REH stories for what seems to be a common view of Mitra as a Christ-like figure? The RPG seems to propagate this with its ban on Mitraic priests using sorcery. I'd have thought Mitra was pretty obviously based on Persian/Roman Mithras, son of the Sun God, an 'honourable' deity but hardly Christian in attitudes.

It is largely a pastiche thing, but Howard did rather set the stage for it in his essay, 'The Hyborian Age'. If you read about Arus on page 242 of the Core rulebook (where that essay is reprinted), you will see some of the basis, especially in the last paragraph of that page. Still, I think the pastiches carried the similarities too far.
 
VincentDarlage said:
It is largely a pastiche thing, but Howard did rather set the stage for it in his essay, 'The Hyborian Age'. If you read about Arus on page 242 of the Core rulebook (where that essay is reprinted), you will see some of the basis, especially in the last paragraph of that page. Still, I think the pastiches carried the similarities too far.

Hmm, good point - but "Arus was the highest product of an innately artistic race, refined by centuries of civilisation" - and his 'refined' Mitraic religion is that of centuries after Conan's era, and apparently largely responsible for the fall of Hyborean civilisation! It does look as if Arus would have opposed gladiatorial contests, but there's no indication that the priests of Mitra ever opposed the use of magics per se.
 
On that I quite agree. I see no reason why a Mitran priest wouldn't use their own brand of sorcery, while reviling any other type of sorcery in the same breath that they cast their own spells.
 
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