Getting players out of the DnD mindset and ready for Conan.

[shouit]

Basically as I have stated in another thread, these guys are used to WoTC DnD and have every book by them out there. Anyways, I want them to change their mentality.

I have told them to read the combat section of the Conan book and get a grasp on how things are different in feel. I have created a PDF Player's Guide to help them with my house rules and some of the feel of what the game plays like. Granted, I haven't given it to them yet and they are already sending me 5th level characters, which I told them they would be starting at 1st.

These guys are new to the idea of Conan, save one of them. How do I get them to understand the concept that fighting can/will get you killed, running away is a good idea. How do I get them to understand the "feel" is vastly different than other d20 products out there. Any suggestions?

 

[Majestic7]

This post was originally in the Drunken Master thread - I moved it here and deleted the original.

I'd go for a shock tactic. One of the things about D&D is that it's basic premise is that the game is fair, in a sense. Challenge ratings measure what the characters can take and they will encounter only CR's within certain range of their prowess. Likewise, player characters are practically invincible when faced with "regular folk" after a certain level.

So, smack them on the head with how Hyboria is different. There is nothing fair in Hyboria, the man (or woman) with the strongest swordarm or mightiest spells takes it all while the rest end up as galley slaves. Show them that the combat system is lethal by putting against them enemies that can easily cross the damage threshold. Put them in situations where they might be tempted to do something stupid because "they are just local mooks, they can't take us." They can avoid death with fate points, but that doesn't mean they can't wake up as chained slaves.

Of course, this all depends on what kind of personalities your players have - if they are prone to whine at their characters facing any kind of misfortune, well, they won't like that at all. Likewise, it is better to lay traps for them and let them jump in the gaping pit by their own choice instead of railroading them to trouble. The latter feels easily very arbitary and leaves a very foul aftertaste.

 

[Aholibamah]

The galley slaves thing is a good point--in my last session most of the group were relaxing and disporting themselves in a very dangerous area that they had been numerous times warned was dangerous and had demonstrated to them. (basically Shadizar--watch your back!) They knew that the brothel they were going to was owned by a treacherous and dangerous person that their patron had sent them to investigate. I felt it perfectly fair after half the session had gone by to have them attacked while largely naked and languid. I think you need to not hold the punches in particular. Healing is hard in this setting for instance--you're not going to find a potion of cure light wounds after you've gotten a slash across the ribs. Magic does exist but it comes with a nasty price. Life is brutal and short for the average person.

 

[shouit]

Should someone pull punches for the first couple levels? And should I start them at 2nd level to give them a better survivablity?

I like the idea of waking up in a slave caravan, that was the way I was going to start them. When I get all the details worked out for the beginning adventure, I will post it, but I want to start them unarmed and in trouble, trying to bring them together that way.

 

[Spectator]

About levels:

Someone once said that first level is for the 16 year old farmhand who runs off to join the army or 16 year Conan as a petty barbarian, or the young Jewelers Apprentice who becomes a Zamorian thief after his master kicks him out for shtooping his daughter (basically it is for very junior adventurers). Basically I have a concept that an active adventurer who is at the top of his game will be 20th level by age 36, assuming he starts at 16 y.o.a.

I suppose to give them a fighting chance start them at 3rd level (age 19-20). Tougher than average, but something where they could not take on a village and survive or feel completely invincible to arrows.

Great thing about Conan is that Combat really sucks, you can die rather easily by a well placed hit (sounds like real life!)

The DnD mindset is very tough to overcome, hell I hadn't played it in years and I still keep griping about sorcerors get the shaft in Conan.

 

[Malcadon]

I often have quit a time convincing the Dungeoneers no how the Conan system is better then D&D. And, almost always they are convinced. When I get a game going, I try to gear them to the new playing style and most adjust to it quit well, but some of them (typically young or new D&D gamers) have a rough time braking from the hack n' slash dungeon crawling mold.

Such players get rather off-put by the Conan gaming style. They like to load-up no equipment like we are playing Oregon Trail. They have to test every weapon and jewelery for magic, even after I tell them that they lucky to find a +1 ass-stretcher at level 15. Think that they must fight and kill to get XP. And, they forget that guards, soldiers and other NPCs have PC classes and find themselves in big trouble when they pick a fight with ugly mob.

The funny part of this is when they learn that this system don't use the Challenge Rating system. Even some of the experienced players say: “Then how do you balance the game?”, and I just say: “You just have to use your head and think on you feet!”. Then they say: “How do you determine XP?”, and I just tell them: “Its like a lot of other RPGs, you get XP by playing the game and keeping the plot moving. You dont need to defeat every monster you encounter, as you still get the same (or more) XP by using you head to think your way out of a tight spot – as XP is worthless if you you get killed.”. Pointing this out is good for the PCs survival as they will think twice before they get in range of a monster's horrible-rape-radius.

Once they adjust to this play-style, they will likely come to love it and might not go back to generic dungeon crawling.

 

[argo]

Yeah, getting players to switch their mindset from any game to a different one can be difficult. Try talking to them upfront about some of the differences between DnD and Conan.

Some of the differences you might want to highlight before the game begins.
-Power is a function of your character, not your gear. Point out the rule of high living before play starts and be sure to enforce it. In play make an effort to have their gear get lost or destroyed "unfairly", just make sure that they can find/steal replacements easily.
-Combat is deadly. Explain how the massive damage threshold can easily ruin their day at any given time. Tell them they may want to consider avoiding combat (by whatever means) just to avoid having to take that risk.
-No magical healing. Explain how they are not guaranteed to be back to full HP at the end of any given encounter. Another good reason to not kill everything that moves.
-The world is not "fair". No CR's. No balanced encounters. They have no way of knowing if that bandit over there is 1st level or 10th. Have them face some mixed encounters in play to get a hang of this.
-However, contrary to the last three posts... this is still a Conan game. Combat, when it happens, is fast and brutal. Be prepared to fight at any time.
-Magic is not their friend, it is not reliable nor particularly healthy. Point out the rules for Corruption and Madness. I strongly recomend you ban PC spellcasters, at least for your first campaign. Tell them they can try making a sorcorer the second time around.

Now those are all really game mechanic type things. You also need to help them get a feel for the setting as well. If any of them are old-time DnD players explain to them that Conan is more similar to an old-school dnd game - fighting-men face monsters and traps for treasure which they then spend on ale and whores. 8) Maybe even get everybody together for character creation and put the Ah-Nold movie on in the background (yes I know it isn't "pure" REH Conan, but it should emphasize the difference between DnD and Conan).

One player in my group simply had no exposure to Conan or swords 'n sorcery in general before he started playing in my game. His big thing was anime. So the first character concept he came up with was "a tall, slim Chinesse man who wears a long coat and fights with chains that have heavy razor blades in the ends." After I picked my jaw up off the floor I thought a minute, suppresed the urge to laugh at him, thought about it some more, then I said to him "look, that's a cool character... but he simply does not fit in this campaign setting" We worked on it some until we got a character he liked that I could stomach. However, by the end of that campaign he had finally gotten a grasp of what the setting is all about. His subsequent character ideas have all been very good. In fact I recently got him to read my collection of REH conan and he loved it! Score one more convert.

Sorry for the long post. Hope that helps.

 

[shouit]

Yeah, getting players to switch their mindset from any game to a different one can be difficult. Try talking to them upfront about some of the differences between DnD and Conan.

This is my main problem. They wanted d20 game and I choose Conan. I think they are expecting this to be the same o' same o'. I am working on getting them to understand the difference.

As I have said in another thread, one wants to be a drunken master. While not specifically REH Conan, I could see how it fits. He will probably be a Sorceror build, but only for the Oriental Magic. Otherwise, I am trying to stear them away from Sorceror.

 

[warzen]

Shouit,
may be you should an short adventure with pre-rolled characters as an introduction to the world. See how they react and if they are interested.

W.

 

[toothill man]

my leap was slaine as a way in to conan but the lads loved slaine and still do so much that it has become our default setting its the insults and rough-tumble bugger a fair fight get the sod feel that makes both slaine and conan great fun to both play and DM.

 

[shouit]

Shouit,
may be you should an short adventure with pre-rolled characters as an introduction to the world. See how they react and if they are interested.

W.

I like that idea. I am planning on doing a combat session, so they know the score somewhat. I have already invested heavily into Conan and if I am going to run d20, Conan is what it will be. I will just have to be patient and they will need to make a couple back up characters.

Honestly, I just cant stand regular DnD anymore. I will play it and that is it. There is just too much stuff and these guys have most/all of it. I choose Conan based on what I read and the lack of magic and magic items.

Thanks for all the help, these forums have been way cool. Plus I can access them from work, so when I am bored I check them!

 

[toothill man]

my group was half weaned by turning to planescape to leave the 9X9 room with a chest and a orc guard way behind 8)

 

[Clovenhoof]

Well, I am kind of lucky there because my players are total D20 noobs. Most of them do have a lot of RPG experience with different systems, though.

This was also the reason I started the campaign at level 1 - I first wanted to let them get used to the system. Normally I'd have started at level 3.
Now we may take a new player into the group who did play D&D before, and I already explained to him the critical differences between these two games and he said it sounded interesting. So we'll see what comes of it.

(and I have once used the CR system -- _after_ the party fought a very tough encounter, and I wanted to check if the XP reward I gave them was overboard. Turns out my measure was spot on. )

BTW on low levels, the difference is not that big -- you have low HP, limited spells and no magic items in both games. But from medium levels on, the discrepancy gets ever higher. In favour of Conan, of course. ^__^