General Power Levels?

[SableWyvern]

Thanks S'mon. I will look at that, and comment later (a tad not-sober, at the moment). I think I'll have to start a new thread in the not-too-distant future, regarding my plans for level caps/limits, and a few other mods I've been contemplating (mainly involving poison rules imported from Rolemaster, and serious injury rules).

 

[argo]

If you want to change the standard d20 rules to fit a book-Conan feel rather than changing Conan to fit d20, I think you need to get rid of the uber-levels; Conan was never superhuman. I suggest using the first 10 levels only, with maybe Feats & skills gained for XP once PCs hit 10th.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Smon. Conan defanetly had more than 10 levels under his belt by the end of his career (espically if you grant me my conceit that the average level for a recruit soldier or guardsman is 3 instead of 1). I would say that the things he accomplished in Hour of the Dragon describe a 20th level character prety well, maybe level 18 or 15 if you want to lowball it, but certainly higher than 10th.

The thing that makes Conan feel different than stock dnd is that even though his capabilities map prety well to a 20 level progression his toughness does not. A dnd Ftr 20 would laugh at an army of 100 Ftr 3's wheras Conan (or a dnd Ftr 10) would not. But in the Conan RPG we have massive damage, a cap of 10 HD, rules for mobbing characters and more that work to give us that feeling of an uber-warrior who still walks the edge of death in every fight.

Personally, I like it. 8)

Later.

 

[S'mon]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Smon. Conan defanetly had more than 10 levels under his belt by the end of his career (espically if you grant me my conceit that the average level for a recruit soldier or guardsman is 3 instead of 1).

I'm using that myself, that a typical experienced guardsman is 3rd level with ca 21-27 hp. The problem though is that in 3e (& Conan RAW) it's very easy for a high level fighter to go up to several 3rd levellers, power attack & cleave, and kill everyone within reach with a single blow. The Conan system's defense bonuses & armour DRs seem to largely negate the effects of the low Massive Damage Check; the 3rd leveller is unlikely ever to do enough damage past Conan's DR to provoke one. OGL Conan lowers hp gain after 10th, IMO you also need to lower BAB increase if you want to maintain the idea that Conan was 20th level; perhaps the Epic Level Rules 1/2 would work. Limiting Power Attack would also help a lot, maybe to a maximum of 5 off BAB +5/+10 to damage.

 

[argo]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Smon. Conan defanetly had more than 10 levels under his belt by the end of his career (espically if you grant me my conceit that the average level for a recruit soldier or guardsman is 3 instead of 1).

I'm using that myself, that a typical experienced guardsman is 3rd level with ca 21-27 hp.

Well, what I was saying is that a recruit=3 experienced=4 and vetran/sergeant=5.

The problem though is that in 3e (& Conan RAW) it's very easy for a high level fighter to go up to several 3rd levellers, power attack & cleave, and kill everyone within reach with a single blow.

I never said that a high level character can't kill low level characters by the busshel. Mooks exist to be killed. I simply said that if those severall mooks have a score or two of friends along for the ride that eventually that 20th level character will go down (sooner if the mooks use good tactics). That is a major difference from DnD where a level 20 anything can reasonably expect to be virtually immune to the efforts of level 3 anythings.

The Conan system's defense bonuses & armour DRs seem to largely negate the effects of the low Massive Damage Check; the 3rd leveller is unlikely ever to do enough damage past Conan's DR to provoke one.

It depends on the situation but I don't think it unreasonable that many guard-types you might find would be equiped with poleaxes, warhammers, bills or bardiches which should give them a prety good chance of penetrating all but the heaviest armor (and in Conan, unlike dnd, if you want to walk around wearing heavy armor you better have a reason for it). And don't forget that a crit with many martial weapons has a darn good chance of forcing a massive damage check regardless of armor worn.

This works in reverse too. A soldier or guard is one of the people who has a good reason to stand around all day in medium or heavy armor (mail haubrek + steel cap = DR 7) and unless your PC's come prepared to crack armor then that DR can increase their lifespan by a suprising ammount.

OGL Conan lowers hp gain after 10th, IMO you also need to lower BAB increase if you want to maintain the idea that Conan was 20th level; perhaps the Epic Level Rules 1/2 would work. Limiting Power Attack would also help a lot, maybe to a maximum of 5 off BAB +5/+10 to damage.

But it is the fact that BAB keeps esclating, while HD does not, that makes Conan more deadly than stock dnd. Once you pass level 10 or so the focus of your combat tactics shifts away from average damage per round and towards forcing massive damage checks (or, conversely, avoiding massive damage saves) and it is the excess BAB that lets them do that.

At any rate, that is just how things seems to have shaken out in my games so far. Of course I don't expect my players to do a whole lot of adventuring at 20th level, 20 is more the capstone of a career than the start of it, but I don't really see a need to try and compress the range of experience into 10 levels either. 12-15 level PC's boldly striding across the landscape while 3-6 level bandits and mercaneries look on in awe seems very appropriate to the Hyborian age, IMHO.

Later.

 

[S'mon]

I guess if you make a typical experienced bandit or mercenary 6th level then there's much more room for 20th level PCs - tough on 1st level PCs, though! ie if you say a 'starting' or novice PC or guard is 3rd level, then you can have 20th level PCs and it's not too un-Conany; but if starting PCs & soldiers are 1st level then 20th is ridiculously tough compared to the power differential indicated in the stories; King Conan might (arguably) be the equal of a shipload of black corsairs, but not of a Nemedian cavalry regiment. I agree re crits though - a bardiche crit vs King Conan only has a 1 in 400 chance from a typical soldier (20 then 20 to confirm), but will reliably force a very hard Massive Damage Check. So King Conan would be unwise to just throw himself into the middle of a Nemedian heavy infantry unit wielding bardiches. No other weapon in the game has the same potential lethality to high level PCs though, a greatsword's x2 crit is nasty but may not force a MDC from a high level armoured-barbarian PC, and the MDC will likely be makeable.