GEG loopholes

[E-Mines Hurt]

From the discussion about the Gaim the Klikkitaks don't get the scout bonus because they are not a weapon system.

Now the rules for GEG "...deducted from the ship by each separate weapon attacking is reduced....".

We know the Klikkitak is not a Weapon System. I do not know if the Klikkitak is a weapon. Is it?

They already ignore interceptors, do they ignore GEG as well?

The same thing applies to other suicide fighters, ramming ships, exploding ships and asteroids viz. that they do damage but are not weapons. Does GEG work on them?

 

[katadder]

we have always played including at mongoose tourneys that GEGs stop them unless you roll a crit as normal.

 

[E-Mines Hurt]

Also, given that the Klikkitak isn't firing a weapon, shouldn't it be able to suicide into a dogfight? e.g. a porfatis is dogfighting a klikkita, shouldn't a klikkitak be able to suicide attack the porfatis (subject to surviving the AF roll) despite it being in a dogfight since it is not firing into the dogfight?

 

[Burger]

It doesn't mention "weapon systems" when disallowing firing into dogfights. It just says "may not be fired upon". I would include suicide fighters in this phrase.

 

[katadder]

I guess you could choose to suicide yourself into a fighter as you decide this in the movement phase, the fighter would get its dodge though

 

[AdrianH]

Klikkitaks can't suicide into dogfights. It is specifically forbidden in the Klikkitak's rules:
"When in contact with an enemy fighter flight, a Klikkitak will not use the suicide attack rules, but dogfight normally instead."

Dilgar suicide fighters are under no such ban, so could theoretically ram into enemy fighters. However, their attack does not include the "Accurate" trait so, as katadder says, the target fighter gets to dodge. Moreover, since we're following the strict wording of the rules, the suicide fighter is automatically destroyed whether or not the attack hits (although it gives no VP to the other side).

One possible fluff explanation is that, just before ramming, the pilot ejects. The fighter is therefore lost whether it hits or not. It also explains how Dilgar "suicide" fighters can be recovered by fleet carriers; the escape pod made it back to the carrier, which has plenty of spare fighters but not many spare pilots, so the pilot gets a new fighter and launches again.

 

[Burger]

Yes all true but the question asked is whether a suicide fighter can ram a fighter that is already in a dogfight with another, or has just won (therefore technically still "in a dogfight" until the end of the turn).

 

[E-Mines Hurt]

Klikkitaks seem to exist in a twilight zone of the rules, a sort of grey zone between being a weapon and not being a weapon and other fighters existing in the grey zone between being a ship and being a fighter. "In fact, a flight of fighters is treated as a ship for all purposes, unless otherwise mentioned below."

Confusing... this is how I get to mindbenders over how the klikkitak does not benefit from scouts because it doesn't have a weapon but still get stopped by GEG which stops damage from weapons.

Still nothing compared to the unimpregnability of the first edition english version of the rules for the Europa Universalis boardgame.

 

[AdrianH]

Yes all true but the question asked is whether a suicide fighter can ram a fighter that is already in a dogfight with another, or has just won (therefore technically still "in a dogfight" until the end of the turn).

P&P, p.19: "When in contact with an enemy fighter flight, a Klikkitak will not use the suicide attack rules..."
Fleet Lists, p.40: "Any Thorun Dartfighter may intentionally crash into an enemy ship, simply by moving into contact with it. This will automatically destroy the flight at the beginning of the Attack Phase..."
Rulebook, p.29: "Once you move into base contact with an enemy flight, you are considered to be dogfighting..."

So a Klikkitak can't ram a fighter that is already in a dogfight because it can't ram a fighter at all.

There's nothing to say that a Thorun can't ram a fighter, but if it does, it will be in dogfight with its intended target, so either a Thorun can ram a fighter which is in a dogfight or it can't ram fighters at all either. The fact that none of the playtesters have categorically stated that you can't ram a fighter implies that you can ram one which is in a dogfight.

And Thorun ramming attacks happen right at the start of the Attack phase. If an enemy fighter has just won a dogfight then you're well into the Attack phase and it's too late, the Thorun can't ram anything!

Incidentally, the rulebook says that a fighter which is locked into a dogfight can't shoot normally, but says nothing about ramming. The implication is that if a suicide fighter moved into contact with a capital ship and the enemy then moved a fighter to dogfight the suicide fighter, it's too late - the suicide fighter is allowed to ram the capital ship before the fighters roll dice for dogfights.