MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Can gas giants be mined for regular minerals instead of just for fuel? Some have clouds made of sand and others rain diamonds.
Gas Giant Mining
- Thread starter MasterGwydion
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I wouldn't be singing in the rain.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
I would expect that if it was raining diamonds that they were formed deeper in and "geologic" processes like a volcano shot them into the upper atmosphere.
But do you really want to fly your ship through a debris field with such erosive power?
Sandblast your ship with diamonds? How long do your view ports, cameras and sensor apparatus last? Maybe use a drone towing a small cargo net to sieve out those of sufficient size while leaving most of the dust behind. Remote control from a safe distance, lose the net and drone keep the ship and your life.
As far as I know the "raining diamonds" thing is when the temperature and pressure is so high that carbon forms them.
By defintion, GETTING to the diamonds is difficult.
Since it's pretty trivial to just form lab diamonds, or find a convenient planet with accessable diamond deposits, I'd not think anyone would bother.
Diamonds aren't worth very much, objectively.
Anything that's not a gas is way, way down in the core of a gas giant. Unless there's some special unobtainium that is discovered to form there, any form of extraction is highly unlikely to be worth it.
GAS mining on the other hand, yeah, that makes sense. Don't think rocks, think methane, think helium, think ammonia. Ammonium sulfide.
You could have a station around the 1 bar pressure zone that sends gathering drones that are able to manage the high pressures down to where the heavier gasses are. It MIGHT be possible to do it with some kind of snorkel setup.
By defintion, GETTING to the diamonds is difficult.
Since it's pretty trivial to just form lab diamonds, or find a convenient planet with accessable diamond deposits, I'd not think anyone would bother.
Diamonds aren't worth very much, objectively.
Anything that's not a gas is way, way down in the core of a gas giant. Unless there's some special unobtainium that is discovered to form there, any form of extraction is highly unlikely to be worth it.
GAS mining on the other hand, yeah, that makes sense. Don't think rocks, think methane, think helium, think ammonia. Ammonium sulfide.
You could have a station around the 1 bar pressure zone that sends gathering drones that are able to manage the high pressures down to where the heavier gasses are. It MIGHT be possible to do it with some kind of snorkel setup.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
We do have hulls that can do that.
Would avoid cost cutting on spacecraft with that role.
Would avoid cost cutting on spacecraft with that role.
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I'm not sure anything could survive the pressure. Perhaps if you could adjust an AG generator to project some sort of bubble?
And you are right... a windstorm with diamonds in it (even just diamond dust) would do a job on hull plating.
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
Sure, but then its about expenses of mining it. What mineral is cheaper to mine from a gas giant, then from a space rock?
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
There is gravitic shielding in the Companion and in the Deepspace Explorer's Handbook. You're screwed with the diamond-blasting of the hull though, unless the gravitic shielding negates that issue.
Or, you could pressure cook some soot. It's been an industrial process since the 50's.
As I said before, there may well be some valuable unobtainium produced deep in a gas giant's core worth mining for, but it won't be diamonds.
The extraction process might well resemble an oil rig, now that I think about it. The resource in question could even be hydrocarbons...
Okay. Here's some thoughts.
The 1 bar pressure height of Jupiter is about 2.6G. You can position a floating facility there just with lifting gas set to normal (1 bar) pressure. Theoretically using regular air, though this really should be an automated operation due to the radiation and magnetic field. You might as well use a convenient inert gas (plenty of it around).
Drop a really tough pipeline down into the lower layers and suck up the heavier gasses. Pressure differential means it would work like an oil rig - just open the pipe and out it comes. Process and ship out by drone.
Adjust the parameters to suit local situation. You could park the factory higher if you're extracting lighter gases. Use gravitics.
As I said before, there may well be some valuable unobtainium produced deep in a gas giant's core worth mining for, but it won't be diamonds.
The extraction process might well resemble an oil rig, now that I think about it. The resource in question could even be hydrocarbons...
Okay. Here's some thoughts.
The 1 bar pressure height of Jupiter is about 2.6G. You can position a floating facility there just with lifting gas set to normal (1 bar) pressure. Theoretically using regular air, though this really should be an automated operation due to the radiation and magnetic field. You might as well use a convenient inert gas (plenty of it around).
Drop a really tough pipeline down into the lower layers and suck up the heavier gasses. Pressure differential means it would work like an oil rig - just open the pipe and out it comes. Process and ship out by drone.
Adjust the parameters to suit local situation. You could park the factory higher if you're extracting lighter gases. Use gravitics.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Metallic hydrogen.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Or multi atommed hydrogen molecules.
Anything dense will sink.
What do you mean by multi atommed hydrogen molecules? It's normally diatomic (H2) or in a compound with... well, pretty much everything else except inert gasses. H20, NH3 and CH4 being very common. Monomolecular Hydrogen quickly combines with anything with an open valency.
Whether it would be worth extracting any of those from a gas giant is circumstantial. If you have a Titan, you don't need to go to Saturn to extract methane.
What do you mean by multi atommed hydrogen molecules? It's normally diatomic (H2) or in a compound with... well, pretty much everything else except inert gasses. H20, NH3 and CH4 being very common. Monomolecular Hydrogen quickly combines with anything with an open valency.
Whether it would be worth extracting any of those from a gas giant is circumstantial. If you have a Titan, you don't need to go to Saturn to extract methane.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I would speculate that shoving more hydrogen atoms into one hydrogen molecule makes it more energy dense.
Assuming, cutting down fuel requirements for reactors and jump drives.
Assuming, cutting down fuel requirements for reactors and jump drives.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I think you are thinking of hydrogen isotopes.
Maybe he is. But skimming deuterium or tritium from the upper atmosphere would be the way to go there. Again, it's gasses not minerals or even liquids.
My chemistry fu isn't good enough to even guess if D or T are any more energy dense than H. I know their fusion sequence is easier; standard Traveller just uses H as the basis of fuel, but some TUs might prefer D or T to be what is referred to as Fuel.
My chemistry fu isn't good enough to even guess if D or T are any more energy dense than H. I know their fusion sequence is easier; standard Traveller just uses H as the basis of fuel, but some TUs might prefer D or T to be what is referred to as Fuel.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
On reflection, I'm thinking of helium.
Has anyone tried using helium in the jump drive?
Could there be stores of helium inside a gas giant?
Has anyone tried using helium in the jump drive?
Could there be stores of helium inside a gas giant?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
That just makes the jump drive sound all high pitched.
Plenty of Helium in most Gas Giants, plus it's a waste product of Hydrogen fusion.
But the Helium fusion reaction (which happens when dying stars run out of Hydrogen to fuse and are starting to collapse) is maybe beyond normal Traveller tech... but more likely it's just not practical to develop compared to Hydrogen fusion.
But the Helium fusion reaction (which happens when dying stars run out of Hydrogen to fuse and are starting to collapse) is maybe beyond normal Traveller tech... but more likely it's just not practical to develop compared to Hydrogen fusion.
