Gandalf was an IDIOT

[Galt Hagar's Son]

After reading all three books, and then wathcing three movies, it finally crystallized in my head Gandalf was an idiot.
He should have taken the ring from Bilbo called up the Eagles and FLEW to the pit of doom in a red-eye flight, and dropped the damn ring in himself.
Dealing with the fate of the world with the serendipitous numbskull hobbits is equal to commading a 3 year old to coordinate the rescue of the twin towers during 9/11. Yeah its possible it could be done, but that would have to be a very lucky 3 year old, right?

 

[Galt Hagar's Son]

Sorry, I meant for this to go in the Howard/ Tolkien comparison string, my apologies.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

It's okay, I rebooted the damn thing. As for gandalf maybe the Nazgul air force would have been too much for him to overcome?

 

[The King]

Gandalf being a maiar probably couldn't interfere directly. He doesn't belong to the Middle Earth and isn't human. Why would he bother?

 

[Castel]

Actually his mission was to interfere, but in his way, he helped destroing sauron, (even if i remember he didn´t wanted to go to middle earth in the 1st place, because he was afraid of sauron...)

With the passing of eras he ended up forgetting who and what he really was... so he whasn´t that powerfull (he lost he half-god power), and probably while he was still "Gandalf the gray" he would have lost to the Nazgul...

Well if Gandalf would have taken the ring sauron would have won.
Gandalf would be possesed by sauron, giving sauron soul a new body (note that this here is just my opinion), the ring was diferent to the magic users, he transported saurons taint, and would have corrupted even the most pure wizard, and you know how magic is powerfull...

Well so i would say, GO READ THE BOOKS, watch the movie a couple more time so you can understand who and what gandalf whas, but he definitly whas not an idiot...

Hobbits as JRRT picture them were patectic little creatures, but did not suffer much from the curse of the ring (well comparing with other races that true)

So when you´ve got a 3year old that can stop planes in middle air with the power of his mind, i guess people would have wanted him to be helping in the 9/11

IMHO

 

[Neeklus]

Aren't we missing a claring point here featured in the films AND the books? When Frodo offers him the ring he says he can't take it simply because he knows it would turn him. Whose to say that mid-flight he thinks it would be a good idea to use the ring to trounce a few orcs? Once that's done, how about a few trolls? And so on...

 

[Gallowglass]

Aren't we missing a claring point here featured in the films AND the books? When Frodo offers him the ring he says he can't take it simply because he knows it would turn him. Whose to say that mid-flight he thinks it would be a good idea to use the ring to trounce a few orcs? Once that's done, how about a few trolls? And so on...

But since when has what was actually in the text been relevant to these, at times frankly quite bizarre, discussions of works of fiction?



NDM

 

[Feuerbart]

To understand who or what Gandalf really was you shouldn't read only the three basic books or watch the movies, but read the other books like the silmarillon as well. :wink:

 

[Yogah of Yag]

After reading all three books, and then wathcing three movies, it finally crystallized in my head Gandalf was an idiot.
He should have taken the ring from Bilbo called up the Eagles and FLEW to the pit of doom in a red-eye flight, and dropped the damn ring in himself.

LMAO! :lol:

 

[Mark Dunder]

By the time Gandalf knew the One Ring for what it was, Sauron had his forces arrayed. Gandalf at this time, was not as powerful as Suramon. Suramon may have become aware of Gandalfs flight and warned Sauron. It is possible Suramon himself could have stopped Gandalf.

Sauron's forces, even without the ring, could have still overrun Middle Earth. Everything Gandalf and Aragorn did was to distract Sauron from noticing the little hobbit (or more precisely, Gollum) that took him out.

Gandalf, actually, thought himself an idiot at times. But unlike Bombadil, the One Ring would have corrupted him, and Bombadil did not have power outside of his domain.

It's a good story, and I love the movie. I did read the Silmarillion when I was a kid, and it was difficult to follow. Perhaps my supercilious self of today, could make short work of it. Maybe after I read all my Conan books!

 

[Auggie]

I suppose it would be pointless to sell shoes to Hobbits, yes?

 

[Flecha]

Dear Galt, with all due respect, I think you've missed the point completely. The answer to your question is in the book and the movie, and was already pointed Neeklus: when Frodo offers Gandalf the ring, the wizard is momentarily tempted to take it, but then under clear stress repudiates it and explains Frodo that the power would tempt he so much and he could turn evil, and blah, blah. I'd like to add a little more. That is the point of the whole history in LOTR. The ring is a metaphor for power, and NONE is above it; EVERYONE would fall prey to it, especially someone with ancient knowlege like Gandalf. He knows it would be inevitable, so fights against temptation. That's why Tolkien introduces Hobbits as the "simple" creatures they are, people who enjoy simpler things and never (ussually) look after power. They are the only kind of creature able to carry such burden wihtout beign tempted to use it. Of course, at the end, even the noblest hobbit falls prey of the ring. And there's the danger and... well... evilness of the object. And that's why it would be impossible for Gandalf to even touch the thing.

Of course, years of too much dungeoning would make people miss finer points like this and fix everything with firballs and such... macho-like point of view that would leave Gandalf seem like and idiot...

 

[Mark Dunder]

Personally, I think Gandolf only slowly came to realize that Hobbits were not affected in the same way as the "big" people. I think Hobbits had some of the same desires for power as everyone else, and I'm not even sure they actually had more will power. I just think the One Ring had a different affect on them. It may have had something to do with how Hobbits were created. No one seems really to know just when or where Hobbits came to be. Whether or not they were "simple" is irrelevant, they were just more "resilient" than the rest of the "big" folk.

 

[Flecha]

Personally, I think Gandolf only slowly came to realize that Hobbits were not affected in the same way as the "big" people. I think Hobbits had some of the same desires for power as everyone else, and I'm not even sure they actually had more will power. I just think the One Ring had a different affect on them. It may have had something to do with how Hobbits were created. No one seems really to know just when or where Hobbits came to be. Whether or not they were "simple" is irrelevant, they were just more "resilient" than the rest of the "big" folk.

Yeah, right, I agree, more "resilient" (in the willpower sense) than "simple". But that's because they look after less sofisticated things than the rest of races; they don't lust for gold like dwarfs or forcing-beauty-in-thngs, like elves, or... well, sheer power like humans. They are happy with just good food, good drinking, and "spanish siesta", the simple pleasures of life. :wink:

Of course they can have some of the same desires for power: as I pointed out, Frodo finally falls to the power of the ring. It's only that hobbits reflect the best part of we humans. The whole book is full of alegories, in fact.

 

[Zul Daire]

I alos remember reeading a bit somewhere that indeed f Gandalf had been able to do this them what lessons would the world of men have learned.

If the people of middle earth had not sacrificed they would have learned nothing from their mistakes.

Gandalf was sent to guide and inspire.

 

[The King]

just another thing. Gandalf did what he did because he also helped Aragorn to retrieve his realm.

The war of the rings is like a chain and everything did have its meaning in the end.

Arda was meant for men and before Gandalf and the elves depart they had someway to help them to retrieve their strength without the fear of Sauron.

 

[Mark Dunder]

Hobbits led a simple life due in large part to the efforts of Gandolf. Gollum withstood the effects of the One Ring for hundreds of years. His nature changed a great deal, but he didn't "fade" as a man would have. If Frodo had not been stabbed by the Witch King, he might have had an easier go of it, and not have succumbed to the lust for the One Ring so quickly. Remember, Bilbo gave up the One Ring with only a "little" persuasion by Gandolf, and he had had it a lot longer than Frodo.
Hobbits inner nature, their "resilience" physically on a DNA level I contend, not necessarily will power, is what saved them. After all, they ate too much, smoked too much, drank too much, and stole vegetables from their neighbors gardens. Doesn't say much for their will power.

 

[Flecha]

If Frodo had not been stabbed by the Witch King, he might have had an easier go of it, and not have succumbed to the lust for the One Ring so quickly.

Maybe he did quicker than Bilbo, but no quick per se. Tolkien tried to show a process through the book. About the stabbing, maybe, but withouth confirmation by Tolkien himslef about it, I'm not sure.

Remember, Bilbo gave up the One Ring with only a "little" persuasion by Gandolf, and he had had it a lot longer than Frodo.

If I'm right, Sauron was getting increasingly getting back his power, and the ring was "waking up" and "building batteries", so Frodo could have falled quicker bacuse the influence of the ring was getting stronger.

Hobbits inner nature, their "resilience" physically on a DNA level I contend, not necessarily will power, is what saved them. After all, they ate too much, smoked too much, drank too much, and stole vegetables from their neighbors gardens. Doesn't say much for their will power.

Here I disagree strongly, dunderm. I'm not the Tolkien expert to argue about this, but I'm quite sure that Tolkien wanted his hobbits to be stronger at honesty an those not sofisticated virtues; he was indeed VERY fond of them. But as I said, someone more versed in Tolkien that I am should explain better.

 

[Mark Dunder]

Oh, I'm sure they were honest about how much the ate, drank, smoked, and they let their friends know all about the best places to poach vegetables. I'm sure if caught, green handed as it were, they would honestly say they took it. You can be honest about being an alcoholic, does not mean you have a strong will power. Besides, perhaps Hobbit virtue is all about how much you can eat, drink, smoke, and how much vegetables you and your buddies can aquire.

And you've just hafta be fond of that!

 

[Galt Hagar's Son]

Wow, absolutely surprised at how much attention this post got, I'm sorry Mongoose Forum!

OK so maybe Gandalf could not have brought the Ring himself due to the corrupting influences, then he could have stuck little Frodo on the Eagle and sent him on a red eye flight to the pit of DOOM!

Also it seems I thought the Eagles always kicked Nazgul A$$ when it came to aerial combat, speed, maneuverablilty, etc.

Also one post called me a macho something...
I wear that badge with pride!