MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
So, functionally, game-wise, there is no real difference? Thank you.
Fusion reactors and high explosives
- Thread starter IanBruntlett
- Start date
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
And if you want to be really specific, the rules provided for both dirty (fission) and clean (confinement) triggered fusion.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
In theory, neutron bombs would have minimal physical damage.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You could squeeze the neutrons along a (horizontal) gravitational plane.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
As I recall, the idea behind a (modern) Enhanced Radiation Warhead is/was one of the following:
A Standard modern warhead uses the following set-up (or some minor variant of it):
- A U235 Fission trigger to initiate:
- A D-T Fusion reaction, which in turn produced high energy neutrons (n0) as a byproduct that could be used to:
- Fission Trigger a U238 jacket.
Enhanced Radiation Warheads:
I) Basic Neutron Warhead ("Neutron Bomb")
An Neutron Warhead would omit the U238 jacket and scale down the yield of the U235 Fission trigger / D-T Fusion reaction so that it did relatively "minimal" (local) physical damage, but rather sent its Fusion-byproduct neutron burst (n0) to the environment (and damaged biological tissue and/or radiation sensitive electronic equipment and magnetic storage media).
II) Cobalt-Warhead
The other option is to replace the outer U238 jacket with a Co59 jacket, so that the byproduct high energy neutrons (n0) transmute the jacket into a vapour of radioactive Co60 which settles out as dust and is a reasonably intense beta and gamma emitter for a half-life that is longer than typical for most fission by-products. It can come in three primary configurations:
- Tactical Cobalt Bomb: Used to destroy specific targets, such as military bases or industrial facilities, these bombs release lower amounts of radiation.
- Strategic Cobalt Bomb: Designed to destroy entire cities and regions, these bombs release massive amounts of radiation into the environment.
- Neutron-Induced Cobalt Bomb: This type of bomb uses neutron radiation to induce nuclear reactions in the cobalt-60 core, releasing even more radiation.
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WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
You mean, "Neutron TDX" ?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
We have the technology.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
An Enhanced Radiation bomb is just a dirty bomb guys. Don't overthink it. Low-yield explosive (when compared to a nuclear explosion) with lots of radioactive dust to irradiate lots of people. Primarily a weapon of terror and not a very effective battlefield weapon.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
We also have nuclear dampers to clean up the aftermath.
Consider the how much salvage we could pick up.
Consider the how much salvage we could pick up.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Most settlements TL-12+ already have Nuclear Dampers, so there would be no salvage since there would be no radiation. Less than TL-12 and there is not much to salvage for a TL-12+ civilization to salvage. Think about Us salvaging 1960s technology. We'd be able to melt it down into its raw materials, but not much more than that. 1960s technology has almost no resale value in today's market.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
Actually, no.
A dirty bomb is NOT an Enhanced Radiation Bomb/Warhead because a dirty bomb is not "enhancing" anything. A dirty bomb is the cheap/terrorist alternative.
An Enhanced Radiation Warhead (proper term) is exactly what I described above, and fits with the yield description for them (so called) in CT: JTAS Special Supplement 3: Missiles.
Please see:
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Classic Traveller? So, in other words, they don't actually exist anymore in MgT2. Unless there is a MgT2 source you can cite? Seems like the only rules that exist for them are in editions other than MgT2.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
Your initial question was:
NOT
I could delve into the MgT2 sourcebooks containing Starship weapons and expansions to them to see what versions and derivatives of nuclear missiles exist in MgT2 explicitly across the various publications, but I frankly do not have the motivation to do so.
And that in any event is not saying that they do not exist anymore in MgT2. They exist in both CT canon publications and in the Real World. So they will exist somewhere in MgT2' s version of Charted Space, whether currently explicitly detailed in sourcebooks or not. They may require a write-up or a house-rule in the meantime. - Basically you would take a nuclear warhead, lower its general thermal/kinetic yield by some amount, but increase its secondary radiation damage by perhaps double or triple the new lower thermal/kinetic yield, (and in the case of a Cobalt-type warhead, let it persist with some recurrent damage value if it is in a particular environment).
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Almost all of My statements refer to MgT2, but I apologize for not being more detailed in my post.
My question as to if nukes in Traveller were fission or fusion was a general question based off the topic since We were discussing explosives and fusion reactors. Following posts referred to other people's posts in the forum.
Adding radioactive material to a conventional explosive is "enhancing" a regular explosive device into a Radiological Dispersion Device.
Definition of ENHANCE
heighten, increase; especially : to increase or improve in value, quality, desirability, or attractiveness; raise… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
As to they do exist but there are no rules for them. In a game system defined by rules, as most game systems are, if you have no rules for something, then it doesn't exist. The fluff can be written about it, but the players will never feel the mechanical effects of it since none have been written in the rules that We have. Not sure why they aren't in High Guard as that would be the location that makes the most sense for shipboard weapons to be. Or are they not a shipboard weapon?
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WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
I am the opposite. Unless a constraint or specification is made in a question, I will almost always default to a synthesis of the available material.
Yes, understood.
They ought to be there, and SS3 was a CT/JTAS insert that was a missile expansion for CT: Book 2 Starship Combat, and had rules for custom designing missile and probe payloads, warheads and yield, tracking/targeting, and fuel/propulsion. So they are most certainly a shipboard weapon.
Standard TL shown below (can be built beginning at Std-TL "-2")
Warheads were defined as:
- High Explosive (TL 6) - Chemical explosive / Contact. - 2 hits per 10kg of explosive.
- Focused Force Explosive (TL 9) - High explosive which directs the blast toward the target, thus reducing wasted blast effect (shaped charge technology). - 4 hits per 10 kg of explosive (Max. 30 kg block).
- Nuclear - Fission (TL 8). - From 0.1 kiloton to 10 kilotons. A nuclear warhead produces 10 hits per 0.1 kiloton of yield, and also produces 2 radiation hits per 0.1 kiloton of yield. (Mass = 30 kg)
- Enhanced Radiation (TL 9) - Produce minimal blast but greater amounts of radiation. . . . produce equivalent yields of 0.1 kiloton to 10 kilotons. An enhanced radiation warhead produces 8 hits on the radiation table per 0.1 kiloton of yield. If detonated in contact with the target, it will produce 5 hits per 0.1 kiloton of yield; if not in contact, there are no ordinary hits produced. (Mass = 20 kg)
- Fusion (TL 10) - Hydrogen Fusion. Those below standard tech level require a fission trigger (0.1 kiloton yield) while those at standard tech level and above achieve fusion by other means. They inflict 10 damage hits and 2 radiation hits per 0.1 kiloton of yield. Below standard tech level, there is a minimum yield of 0.2 kilotons. (Mass = 20 kg (40 kg below Std. TL)).
One thing that is different between CT and MgT is that -
CT rated missiles as:
- Conventional Weapons, doing conventional damage hits, and
- Nuclear Weapons, doing both conventional damage hits and radiation hits.
MgT talks about Nuclear Weapon damage (broadly) in terms of:
- Conventional damage
- EMP effects
- Radiation Damage
Essentially, CT Radiation Hits cover both of what in MgT are called EMP and Radiation Damage.
- In MgT EMP is applied to equipment, and Radiation is applied to biological organisms.
- In CT Radiation hits were abstracted to both.
Both Conventional damage and EMP would be an instantaneous effect, whereas Radiation damage would be both instantaneous and also persist and be a contaminant if there is fallout.
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Bryn the 2300AD guy
Cosmic Mongoose
@WHULorigan beat me to pointing out how nukes actually work, but let me add that the fusion reaction does not produce explosive effects, but rather causes addition fission reactions (in the 238U stage) which do.
Hence a thermonuclear device is fission-fusion-fission. The (typically) 239Pu is deonated by implosion, usually boosted by a tritium canister in the core (boosted fission), and the neutrons bombard 6LiD which fissions to T (releasing the D) producing a lot of fast neutrons. These in turn can fission 238U or, if you omitted the 238U jacket, the released fast neutrons can kill be radiation.
The explosive effect of a nuclear device is caused by the X-rays released. X-rays interact with deep core electron shells of matter which is ionised, and excited into plasma. This plasma produces the fireball, shockwave etc. Gamma also causes ionisation but the attentuation of gamma in air is small, and it doesn't produce an explosion, but does produce the EMP in certain conditions.
In space, there is no air. In the atmosphere the X-rays excite the air producing the fireball etc. In space the nuke is simply a strong point source of X-rays (and gamma and some neutrons). The effect really depends upon the X-ray flux, because if high enough (i.e. the nuke is close enough) the exposed layers of the targets hull will flash to a plasma, were devastating effects. If further away, the nuke becomes something more like a solar flare at distance in intensity, a hazard to electronics and sensors, but not some that will explode you.
The reality is that for most nukes they are lethal at 10 m, annoying at 100 m, and a flash on the sensor console if them go off 1 km away.
Hence a thermonuclear device is fission-fusion-fission. The (typically) 239Pu is deonated by implosion, usually boosted by a tritium canister in the core (boosted fission), and the neutrons bombard 6LiD which fissions to T (releasing the D) producing a lot of fast neutrons. These in turn can fission 238U or, if you omitted the 238U jacket, the released fast neutrons can kill be radiation.
The explosive effect of a nuclear device is caused by the X-rays released. X-rays interact with deep core electron shells of matter which is ionised, and excited into plasma. This plasma produces the fireball, shockwave etc. Gamma also causes ionisation but the attentuation of gamma in air is small, and it doesn't produce an explosion, but does produce the EMP in certain conditions.
In space, there is no air. In the atmosphere the X-rays excite the air producing the fireball etc. In space the nuke is simply a strong point source of X-rays (and gamma and some neutrons). The effect really depends upon the X-ray flux, because if high enough (i.e. the nuke is close enough) the exposed layers of the targets hull will flash to a plasma, were devastating effects. If further away, the nuke becomes something more like a solar flare at distance in intensity, a hazard to electronics and sensors, but not some that will explode you.
The reality is that for most nukes they are lethal at 10 m, annoying at 100 m, and a flash on the sensor console if them go off 1 km away.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
What he said. 
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