[Fleetlist] Dilgar

[wyrdmaster]

Ramming fighters to negate stealth. A Garosch provides enough fighters to get past the AAF on most big Minbari ships.

Okay... Definately an option. Not quite what I was thinking of, but I suppose blinding the Minbari with gore all over their bridge viewports is a good way to keep your opponent guessing. Certainly going to use up wiper fluid though.

How's the Dilgar list at this PL? I hear that the Minbari are pretty top heavy PL-wise. How can this be used to his advantage?

 

[Banichi]

And though its a bit weak the Ochlavita is not THAT bad, its just outclassed by the rest of the fleet/most other races skirmish ships.

It sort of strikes me as a different class of skirmish ship from, lets say, something like a vorchan. The vorchan is a ship that is designed as a ship thats meant to act aggresively, the Ochlavita seems to be designed to escort your attack ships, and watch their backs. A more defensive role.

 

[Omnipotent]

The torpedo Jashakars are INSANE little patrol ships :twisted:

...if you can gather 28 AD of range 24 anti-ship missiles with 5 raid points then that is very very deadly =) as in the list shown below

here is a list of which I could do pritty much anything I wanted to, to the EA third age:

2. Jashakar scouts
2. Jashakar tea? torpedo ships
2. ochlavitas
1. targrath
1 tikrit

EA didn´t stand a chance :twisted:

I got a bit swarmed by his thunderbolts(I used torpedo fighters on the targrath and tikrit) but it didn´t help him much when half his ships where floating wrecks after round 3, and I got one a ochlavita a drift.

 

[Batrachian]

Finally the game did happen last saturday, we had to cancel it due time and called it a draw, because the owner of the store wanted to go home. :roll:

When we met, we agreed to try something bigger and took 3Points of War.
My List:
1 Mishakur (because the model is just awsome )
1 Tirkrit
4 Targrath
2 Ochlavita Ki
4 Jashakar Vi Scouts

His List (as far as my memory is right):
1 Sharlin
2 Lesthan Scouts
1 Morshin Carrier
1 Troligan
4 Torotha

I put the 4 Jashakar together with one Ochlavita in one pentacon and 2 Targrath and the second Ochlavita are the second swadron.
We had a 8' Planet in the middle of the table and some asteroids and 2 small nebulas scattered around the table.
His forces where deployed like this: (from my point of view (left to right)
1 Lesthan (behind the asteroids)
4 Torothas
the Troligan
the Sharlin
the planet
the Morshin
and the other Lesthan behind one of the clouds
The depolyment of my forces:
1 Thagrath
the Mishakur,
the planet (behind it the scout pentacon)
the rest
After the setup I realized I made a terrible mistake, the mishakur is lumbering and the sharlin is directly on the other side of the table.


First turn:
(Initative: me (the only time I had it)
So I decided to close the blast doors of the mishakur, so did the Tragrath on this side of the planet and hoped they would survive the Troligan(which went all power to engines) and the Sharlin, the torothas where out of reach. the rest of my fleet adwanced behind the planet (on the other side of the Sharlin) and tried to get the Morshin and the second scout.
Then the shooting began. I had lowered the stealth ratings of the sharlin and the Morshin, I had also rerolls against the sharlin.
First I shoot with the Targrath. Missles against the Sharlin, i saw it but the missles did only minor dmage. Then it failed to see the troligan so no target for the bolters. (I activated the Targrath first, because I hoped the Mishakur could survive the first enemy ship, and it then has a minor stealth to break) Then the Sharlin fired back at the Mishakur: 18 Hits with the beam, with 8 or 9 Crits (damn), I lost the front arc of the Mishakur, no damage control allowed anymore, running adrift AND a (6-6) Crit, so the mishakur was reduced to a better brick of rock.

On the other side of the planet NO ship succeded in breaking the stealth of the Morshin.

Second Turn:
The Tagrath on the side with the sharlin tried to close to the sharlin, maybe doing some damage before it dies. The rest of my fleet closes to the scout and the Morshin.
His forces closed to the Targrath.
Our fighters meet atop my main fleet. Most of his fighters where ripped apart by my AF Fire or the dogfights. (Supporting Dogfights in 2" is great)
He opened fire with the sharlin and destroyed the Tagrath right away.
My returnfire destoyed the Morshin but I failed to get a lock on on the second scout. (damn stealth rolls)

Third turn.
My fleet continued to go round the planet and got the other scout in their firing arc.
His fleet could do nothing but go round the planet and the got only one Torothas in firing range of one of the Targraths. My fighters went after an other Torotha.
Then I thought this could be my turn, the scout about 10" away of my main fleet, about half the ships could also fire their missles, the stealth rating of the Scout was down by one and I had doulbe rerolls (concentrate fire and scout rerolls (do they stack? we were not quite sure))
BUT.... Only one Targrath managed to break the stealth and did nearly no damage... The fighters instead did some moderate damage to the Torotha

Fourth turn:
In short, I maneufered so I had his scout again in my firing arcs and he had no targets except the scout. I finally managed to destroy his scout (only the Tigrith fired but good rolls on Bolders and Missles).

Fifth turn:
I cept my fleet in a pack and got then into the side of the sharlin, and two torotas had my fleet in arc but about 10" away.
We had to break it here, because the store closed but I think, IF i would see the sharlin, I would have been able to destroy it.


conclusion:
- Sharlins are nasty ships, those 8AD precise Beams are just insane.
- Most of my ships have Hull 5 so races without Minibeams or Beams will have tought times hitting my ships.
- Toruns are nice little fighters, used in swarms they are great, mainly because they cann assist each other in to 2" of a dogfight.
- The Tigrith is a bit better than 2 Tagraths, because of the 5" more on their bolters, but I think a good mix of both is just perfect.
- 4 Scouts against Minbari is a must have, also running the scouts in a pentacon with an oclavita ki is great (scout rolls succed on a 3+ ^^)
- Lumbering is a great disatvantage
- Dilgar are very fast and mobile, compared to the Minbari
- Smelt the dices and get new ones.

Some questions we had during the game:
With the pentacon formation we where not quite sure what was correct:
Movement Phase:
His move
My move, I am using the special rule, skipping my move
His move
My move

or
His move
My move, Using the special rule so he must make a move so
His move (due pentacon)
His move (the normal move)
My move

Also it is not quite clear to me, if i am using the special rule, can I nominate one ship of his which he has to move, or can he select, which ship he will move? Maybe it is clear in english, but his and my english both were a bit rusty so we are not quite sure which is correct.

And repairing crits. If i lost a trait due a crit and i repair this crit, do i get the trait back?



So I think this is one of the longest texts I have written in english since I finished school, so sorry on the mistakes

best regards

 

[locarno24]

Comments:

Thou shalt never reroll a reroll.

A pentacon's Initiative Zen* replaces a normal 'move'. No more, no less.

Hull 5 is killable without beams. In fact, hull 4 and 5 are best against beams - which ignore armour - because you get less benefit than against hull 6, and usually get a load of hit points or active defences (ok, not on dilgar ships) or other benefits to make up for it.

4 Scouts against Minbari is a must have, also running the scouts in a pentacon with an oclavita ki is great

Is there a special rule I'm missing for CQ in Dilgar Pentacons?
Nonetheless, you're correct - plenty of fighters and scouts are good against the minbari. They aren't quite a one-trick pony but they're close. Beat stealth reliably and they're in all kinds of trouble.

Sharlin are tasty - 8 dice of precise neutron lasers are lethal but it is a bloody warship. Losing the forward guns of the Mishakur permanently to the first shot of the game robbed you of the chance to see what it could have done...an 'average' volley from a Mishakur's guns (assuming both racks are loaded) pumps out 60-odd damage on a hull 5 target - enough to turn a warcruiser to paste in one shot.







* Moving-by-not-moving.

 

[Batrachian]

So this is the correct one?
His move
My move, Using the special rule so he must make a move so
His move (due pentacon)
His move (the normal move)
My move

The Ochlavita Ki is a command Variant of the Ochlavita, and gives +1 to CQ rolls while in pentacon to his swadron.

In the game my dice rolls were very bad and his ... he got the best crits he could get for the Mishakur... but next time i will be luckier ^^

Greetings

PS.:

*Moving-by-not-moving.

Hum? Understanding is a three edged sword, i know... but I want to understand.

 

[Triggy]

So this is the correct one?
His move
My move, Using the special rule so he must make a move so
His move (due pentacon)
His move (the normal move)
My move

The Ochlavita Ki is a command Variant of the Ochlavita, and gives +1 to CQ rolls while in pentacon to his swadron.

In the game my dice rolls were very bad and his ... he got the best crits he could get for the Mishakur... but next time i will be luckier ^^

Greetings

PS.:

*Moving-by-not-moving.

Hum? Understanding is a three edged sword, i know... but I want to understand.

It's the other one:

His move
My (non-)move (due to Pentacon)
His move
My move
ad infinitum

I actually made this mistake when I first played with Dilgar and the wording does imply the opposite. However, the sequence I've listed is how it's actually played.

 

[Methos5000]

Now I know he didn't use any in his fleet because he didn't have the models for it but what is everyone opinion on the Targrath vs. the Omelos. I see alot of people on here liking the Targrath but the Omelos just seems like a better ship.
The Omelos has:
1 less fighter - isn't a big issue since the Dilgar now have a Raid level Fleet Carrier (a pretty nice one at that)
4 less damage - can make a difference but the Omelos has the potential to dish out more firepower before it is destoryed.
1 less troop - not a significant disadvantage, but the Targrath does win this category
-2AD bolters - sure less firepower per shot but the difference between 10" and 15" is a pretty big difference even with the speed of the ships the Omelos can fire sooner and because its agile it has a better chance of picking what it wants to shoot at.
-2AD Turret Pulsars - again less firepower but longer range and Twin-linked (a big plus)
+6AD P/S Pulsars - combined with the Turret lots more side arc firepower compared to the Targrath
+2AD Aft Pulsars - more firepower but less range and loses Twin-linked. Targrath wins here. Though I think most Dilgar players are more concerned where their front arc is lined up instead of their aft arc
-2 speed - sure the Omelos is slower but its also Agile which is one of the best traits a heavy front arc ship could have, a pity the Targrath did not get this as this would offset its short range bolters
Doesn't have a jump engine - Targrath wins here nothing much else to say about that.

Now I'm not saying the Targrath is useless I just think the Omelos is a more well rounded multipurpose ship making it more useful in standard fleet operations. The Omelos works well in pentacons with Ochlavita-Ki and Jashakars because its also agile so it can keep up with them.

To be honest I'm not sure why the Targrath was downgraded for 2nd Ed. Sure it had lots of firepower but it wasn't a tough ship to kill (32 damage at hull 5 with no defenses whatsoever). Sure there were complaints about it being overpowered but then when isn't there a complaint about a ship being overpowered.

So is there something I'm missing about the Targrath? It just seems most of the time I would just take an Omelos instead.

 

[CaptBavo]

I prefer the omelos over the targrath most frequently, except in a certain few scenarios.

 

[Ripple]

Given the number of ships in the game and small number actually complained about, I would look seriously at the ships that are complained about. A lot of folks want a game that actually last more than one pass, and if you blow up anything that gets in front of you, there is a real issue. This is where the Targrath ran into trouble.

Ripple

 

[Methos5000]

The problem now is that it the ship has kinda lost its identity. Where does it fit in the fleet now? If they wanted to tone it down a little fine but i think it was toned down too much. Not counting its missles its a short range fast NON-Agile ship. In 1st Ed alot of time these ships only got one pass because unless it managed a come about it speed completely killed its maneuverablitity. Now in 2nd Ed it still suffers for the same reasons but now it has less firepower on its main 10" weapon.....sure it gained 4 more AD on its missles but the Omelos has that too and can maneuver much better than the Targrath. And I think the extra 5" the Omelos has on its bolters is a huge advantage, when your facing a fast opponent those extra 5" can make all the difference in the world.

So besides already having models for a Targrath why would anyone take a Targrath over an Omelos? I really am curious to know because right now I just don't see a reason to take it.

 

[[Omicron]Urobach]

apro pos dilgar....

i have got my (old) dilgar fleet box. the tigrit mini has an massdriver under its nose, correct?
but in the stats i don´t have an mass driver weapon...strange.
the wahant has also an massdrivers.. this is correct with the stats.

 

[Ripple]

It's a ship that runs a line, not passes through the center and spins back on the enemy. But I agree that it does have some issues. The up side of those issues is that the current Dilgar seems to need to field a variety of hulls not just a lot of one. I could be wrong there though as the slow fleet seems right hard with the lower rorhric.

I would have preferred it lost the torpedo aspect and went heavier on bolters myself.

Ripple