Flashbacks Redux

[Danforth]

Hey, first post in the Paranoia forum since June! We were told the game would take a bit of a break, while the impact of 25th anniversary editions were compared to the 2004 one, of course, but you always worry the break will turn into a permanent cessation. So it's good to see something pop up in the forthcoming attractions section of the site...

Flashbacks Redux, then.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/detail.php?qsID=1951&qsSeries=Paranoia
"Filled with hand-picked classic adventures from all previous editions of Paranoia" suggests to me that one or two Mongoose-era adventures might sneak in! Personally I'd drop Alpha Complexities and maybe Vapours Don't Shoot Back to make room. The former, while including some great moments, showed early rumblings of the dread metaplot that killed the West End edition of the game; and the latter is fun for the GM but not really for the players.

Me and My Shadow, Mk.4 I'm glad to see is still there, and I have my fingers crossed that Send In The Clones makes it in too - those two were my favourites back in the day, and the more people get to play them, the better.

Not sure what Mongoose era adventures I'd put in... Hunger was brilliant, so that would be great to see. One of Gareth Hanrahan's too? I'm fond of Sweep of Unhistory...

Over to you lot

 

[Arkku]

Not sure what Mongoose era adventures I'd put in... Hunger was brilliant, so that would be great to see.

Funny, I thought Hunger was one of the worst adventures for Paranoia, and probably the worst in Mongoose era material. For one, it breaks down completely unless the PCs follow the railroad set out for them. Admittedly that may not be that unusual for Paranoia adventures, but usually there's room to create some illusion of free will before plothammering the players back on track, here practically none. It may be interesting reading for the GM (at least until logic goes down the toilet in the end) due to the real world events that inspired it, but it's not an adventure.

And without spoiling anything else, consider the single quote “One out of every 20 citizens is a Matter Eater.” A key point in the adventure's logic is based on the coincidence that the game system uses a 20-sided die for creating player characters with playable and interesting mutations, and this mechanic is supposed to apply in the game world to every NPC as well? An ugly use of game mechanics as a plot device, and completely contrary to my (personal) idea of Alpha Complex… And even if we were to accept this as true, I don't think it's logical that those Matter Eaters would behave like the adventure supposes.

(And this is by no means the only thing in the adventure's Alpha Complex that runs contrary to my Alpha Complex, but I won't rant about all of the things, especially as many of them would spoil the plot.)

 

[Arkku]

As for what I'd like to see in Flashbacks Redux, well, perhaps Tube Jam (not because it's particularly good, but because it's hard to find), The Iceman Returneth (yes, the end is a bit troublesome but the adventure itself is not that bad), and if something from the Mongoose era, then perhaps Stealth Train.

 

[Allen Varney]

As for what I'd like to see in Flashbacks Redux, well, perhaps Tube Jam (not because it's particularly good, but because it's hard to find), The Iceman Returneth (yes, the end is a bit troublesome but the adventure itself is not that bad), and if something from the Mongoose era, then perhaps Stealth Train.

Gareth Hanrahan loosely adapted The Iceman Returneth -- or concepts from it, anyway -- for the High Programmers supplement None of This is My Fault, published earlier this year.

I don't know "Tube Jam." Where is it from?

 

[Mytholder]

Tube Jam was, IIRC, a free rpg day adventure. I've the manuscript lying around somewhere.

 

[Danforth]

Funny, I thought Hunger was one of the worst adventures for Paranoia, and probably the worst in Mongoose era material. For one, it breaks down completely unless the PCs follow the railroad set out for them. Admittedly that may not be that unusual for Paranoia adventures, but usually there's room to create some illusion of free will before plothammering the players back on track, here practically none.

Personally I didn't find the railroading opportunities/constraints any different to other Paranoia games - there were some, for want of a better word, checkpoints to hit at the end of each chapter, and the GM has pretty much the entire game world at his disposal to get them there regardless of what players get up to inbetween. The only difference is the players get hosed with gifts and increased responsibilities rather than fines and demotions.

It may be interesting reading for the GM (at least until logic goes down the toilet in the end) due to the real world events that inspired it, but it's not an adventure.

I'd say it's as much of a roleplaying experience as any of the traditional Paranoia adventures...

On the "interesting reading for the GM" side, as this is the same criticism I levelled at Vapours Don't Shoot Back, I should explain the difference as I see it.

In both adventures - hell, in most Paranoia adventures - a lot is hidden from the players. Many's the time, especially in my younger more Zappy days I had players come up to me after a game, say they had fun, then ask what the hell was actually going on. So I'd fill them in afterwards. But usually, if I'd GM'd well, they'd pick up the gist by the end of debriefing.

With Vapours, there is basically no way the players will ever find out what's going on (the bickering Ultraviolets, the car collection etc.) so it's just a collection of encounters. I like the players to at least have the chance to figure out something of what is going on - even if their characters don't. In Vapours, the only way to determine the plot is to read the book. In Hunger, the players eventually find out... everything... brrr.

And without spoiling anything else, consider the single quote “One out of every 20 citizens is a Matter Eater.” A key point in the adventure's logic is based on the coincidence that the game system uses a 20-sided die for creating player characters...

I can see how that would rankle. Though I didn't really make the connection between the dice and the in-game fact at the time. When I read it, I interpreted it as 1 in 20 citizens of QYN Sector were Matter Eaters, which just struck me as a Straight-type tool to determine how many citizens went down each story path. Besides, hey, you're the GM, change it!

 

[Kurgan]

I don't know if it's even possible (smaller print or more pages), but what would really make this the perfect Flashbacks book would be to simply combine the previous two editions, and then toss-in HIL Sector Blues to finish off the 1st edition stuff.

I'd also like to see an official web-book, containing no actual adventures, but updated stats for all the 2nd edition adventures (would we actually need one for the XP stuff, too?).

 

[Allen Varney]

what would really make this the perfect Flashbacks book would be to simply combine the previous two editions, and then toss-in HIL Sector Blues to finish off the 1st edition stuff.

HIL Sector Blues has already been updated and published, as the BLUE-Clearance section of the Extreme PARANOIA rules supplement. I believe Gareth Hanrahan may also have adapted some small incidental bits for the Internal Security rulebook.

 

[Arkku]

Translating On Ne Vit Que Six Fois would also be interesting… =)

 

[Arkku]

The only difference is the players get hosed with gifts and increased responsibilities rather than fines and demotions.

The gifts and promotions are problematic, though, as experienced Paranoia-players will surely know guess that they such things will lead to certain doom. (DOOOOOM!) They will thus spend most of their time and new “power” trying to not have the adventure run its intended course. Of course that's not so different from the usual pre-made Paranoia adventure, but in Hunger it seems to me that the required railroading to counter the “escape attempts” of the high-clearance players is just too heavy-handed and illogical to even be fun anymore.

Besides, hey, you're the GM, change it!

Of course, I am not a big fan of running many pre-made Paranoia adventures to begin with (though I am a big fan of reading them for inspiration and laughs =)… But honestly I've been unable to come up with a set of fixes that would made Hunger suit my taste (and players whose primary motivation in any game is apparently to try to best the GM and get off the railroad).

 

[Danforth]

Hey, the cover is up:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/detail.php?qsID=1951&qsSeries=Paranoia#

From the Old Reckoning car being crushed beneath the Mark IV's treads, I'm guessing Vapors Don't Shoot Back made it in. I also guess that, with the State of the Mongoose announcement of Flashbacks Redux Redux, there's no pressure for West End era classics to be dropped in favour of Mongoose's XP era adventures after all... especially if Redux Redux is another 256-pager...

 

[MongooseMatt]

I also guess that, with the State of the Mongoose announcement of Flashbacks Redux Redux, there's no pressure for West End era classics to be dropped in favour of Mongoose's XP era adventures after all... especially if Redux Redux is another 256-pager...

That is the idea - two, big, fat books of Paranoia goodness!

 

[Thunderforge]

I think the most exciting thing about it is that we get a real Paranoia cover and not just a bunch of colored shapes!

 

[markrusell]

It may be intriguing reading for the GM (at smallest until reasoning proceeds down the lavatory in the end) due to the genuine world happenings that motivated it,

 

[Silent]

They will thus spend most of their time and new “power” trying to not have the adventure run its intended course.

And that's alright. Once the players get to a position of power where there are completely responsible for the [CENSORED] project and know they are in a hosejob, I'd be perfectly fine in letting them figure out either how to salvage the situation or even escape. And I wouldn't even counter the "escape", they have the power, if they want to run away and let millions of Alpha Complexians die, let them do it. In fact, escape actually makes far more sense than the "happy ending" already provided. (The real critique of Hunger is that it presents a Alpha Complex that does not work, a la Classic, instead of a scarily competent entity like ideal Straight.)

I really enjoy "Hunger", though I only played it with one individual, and that individual did end up escaping the Complex. All you have to do is just be ready to allow the players the freedoms to go off the rails and do what they want, with only a few "checkpoints" they have to pass first.

If I had one regret, it was forcing the player to run away. The player he did in fact try to fix the situation and alert Friend Computer that something was wrong, only for Internal Security to rush in and stop him from doing so. In retrospect, I probably should have had IntSec agree with my single player and end the project, instead of defending the system and forcing my player to just run away. But those were the breaks.