Fixing a few bugs / "limbo state" rules

[Clovenhoof]

The thread has derailed a bit, but anyway I'd like to look at TWF and Archery in terms of Feat requirements and effectiveness.

Archery: to be effective, you need PBS - it does cost a feat slot, but it also does give a real benefit. Rapid Shot is a bit of a tradeoff (due to the -2) but should be worth it.

TWF: most classes get TWF for free, so for those it costs no feat to get an extra attack. That extra attack is at no penalty. Just one actual feat (ITWF) grants you up to 3 extra attacks, again at no penalty. Of course, having many attacks makes the most sense when you have a damage bonus to each attack, which in Conan essentially means Sneak Attack.

THF: you get the regular amount of attacks, but with 1,5x Str bonus, and you don't have to buy any feat. You _can_ use Power Attack (which is impossible with Ranged and usually doesn't make sense with TWF) which is extremely useful. The same -2 penalty that Rapid Shot has will give you +4 damage to each attack.

In short, THF is the king, but we all know that anyway. Between archery and TWF, I don't see such a huge advantage on the archery side.

I have a couple of spreadsheets comparing exactly this kind of thing, but the one for Conan doesn't take Rapid Shot into account and the one for D&D uses the D&D modifiers, so I'll have to fiddle with that a bit.

EDIT: ....done. Here are the results for a level 11 character with Str and Dex of 18 each (so things aren't biased in either direction), against a Defense of 20, and not taking DR into account because I'm effing lazy:

Rapid Shot: max yield for Thf9/Bor2 at 36,1 (average damage/round) with Sneak Attack; or Bor11 at 21,4 if sneak is not possible

ITWF: 40,8 damage round for T9/B2 with Sneak, and 24,8 for B11 without sneak.

--

And finally, concerning the structure of the combat round, yes it's oversimplifying, but it's still better than devising a system where everyone can act anytime and respond to others' action in split-seconds. Mongoose Traveller has a system that goes in this direction, working with Timing and Effect, and the result is extremely drawn-out, tedious combat, where a few seconds in game eat up over an hour of real time. I think we are all in accord that we don't want this for a hearty game of Conan.

 

[kintire]

In short, THF is the king, but we all know that anyway. Between archery and TWF, I don't see such a huge advantage on the archery side.

I have a couple of spreadsheets comparing exactly this kind of thing, but the one for Conan doesn't take Rapid Shot into account and the one for D&D uses the D&D modifiers, so I'll have to fiddle with that a bit.

EDIT: ....done. Here are the results for a level 11 character with Str and Dex of 18 each (so things aren't biased in either direction), against a Defense of 20, and not taking DR into account because I'm effing lazy:

Rapid Shot: max yield for Thf9/Bor2 at 36,1 (average damage/round) with Sneak Attack; or Bor11 at 21,4 if sneak is not possible

ITWF: 40,8 damage round for T9/B2 with Sneak, and 24,8 for B11 without sneak.

Interesting figures. What this tells me is that if you are flanker you probably want twf. But otherwise, its archery all the way. Comparable damage, ranged attacks so you hardly ever have to move, can't be parried, and no downside in melee combat. Unless you draw AoOs in melee, in which case its a more difficult question...

And finally, concerning the structure of the combat round, yes it's oversimplifying, but it's still better than devising a system where everyone can act anytime and respond to others' action in split-seconds. Mongoose Traveller has a system that goes in this direction, working with Timing and Effect, and the result is extremely drawn-out, tedious combat, where a few seconds in game eat up over an hour of real time. I think we are all in accord that we don't want this for a hearty game of Conan.

I think we certainly are, but it does mean that arguments like:

This is stupid. What do the involved characters do, time travel? After the character takes his 5' step, he's out of Reach, not in the Threatened Square anyore, byebye darling. How does the enemy suddenly become able to retroactively deal an AoO if the character decides to use his bow after taking the step? Does his arm grow longer? Does the scene magically rewind to the moment that the character is taking his step?

are irrelevant.