Vorlon Servant
Mongoose
To long without B5, how can you stand it.
Perhaps, like the Centauri Guards, Sheridan simply surprised them an got an opening to run for it.
First Ones
- Thread starter HanSolo
- Start date
To long without B5, how can you stand it.
Perhaps, like the Centauri Guards, Sheridan simply surprised them an got an opening to run for it.
wraith said:
Two of them against one Vorlon doesn't work very well - see season 1
wraith said:
Alternatively, let's go with what we saw on screen, two Shadows collapsing under the weapons' fire, the clear implication of which
I do find a lot of the material in the season 4 fact book questionable, to say the least.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
wraith said:
To long without B5, how can you stand it.
When it got bad, I still had the VHS thank goodness.
LBH
I thought I heard once that those shadows did not die but fled as they can also kind of phase or something. Also Hi im new just joined and love the stuff Mongoose is showing for B5 (though havent bought any of the books yet but plan to soon)
I to would love to see a book that shows more about the other first ones. I mean they all have such interesting histories that is screaming out to be explored. Walkers, Kirishiac, Mindriders, Torvalus and Triad along with Loriens people. The whole Kirishiac War, how these races evolved, the Shadow/Vorlon conflicts, the Walkers exploration of space and i mean there might be other races out there who were quite powerful or something.
Also sorry to bring up an old topic but wanted to post that....and declare my presence here
I to would love to see a book that shows more about the other first ones. I mean they all have such interesting histories that is screaming out to be explored. Walkers, Kirishiac, Mindriders, Torvalus and Triad along with Loriens people. The whole Kirishiac War, how these races evolved, the Shadow/Vorlon conflicts, the Walkers exploration of space and i mean there might be other races out there who were quite powerful or something.
Also sorry to bring up an old topic but wanted to post that....and declare my presence here
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Ulkesh said:I to would love to see a book that shows more about the other first ones. I mean they all have such interesting histories that is screaming out to be explored. Walkers, Kirishiac, Mindriders, Torvalus and Triad along with Loriens people. The whole Kirishiac War, how these races evolved, the Shadow/Vorlon conflicts, the Walkers exploration of space and i mean there might be other races out there who were quite powerful or something.
Also sorry to bring up an old topic but wanted to post that....and declare my presence here
Where have you gotten those histories from? The on screen stuff tells us almost nothing of the First Ones, apart from that thay fought in the 1000 year ago war, most left for the Rim, and that the Sigma 957 First Ones have something against the Vorlons. ANything else is of debatable canon status. ALthough I guess most of it came from old AOG stuff so that's not too bad.
LBH
Mouth of Sauron
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Yeah, the histories Ulkesh mentions are from Wars of the Ancients by AOG.
Speaking of the Vorlons and Shadows, if only Mongoose could be convinced (with a petition or something) to skip the Earthforce Campaign Book, and any other Non-B5 rpg books they're releasing, in favor of pushing Darkness and Light way ahead in the schedule.
Although, there's probably some fact about the rpg business that would prevent them from releasing Darkness and Light any sooner even if they really wanted to.
I'll never forgive them for (repeatedly) moving Darkness and Light so far back. :evil: ARRRGGH!! :x I'm suffering from B5 rpg withdrawl. :twisted: :lol:
lastbesthope said:
I heard it from a friend who has the AoG book War of the Ancients as Mouth of Sauron said. Heard alot of the stuff about the details in the book and hope that Mongoose could expand on it.
I mean they had the motives for the different races as well so the Walkers from Sigma 957 (ZOG!) are basically on a neverending search for knowledge while the Mindriders want to live the experiences of the younger races to find the vital element to make them 'complete' in a manner of speaking and the Torvalus like to gamble on odds on anything and everything. Then they had the Kirishiac tho are a warrior race among the First Ones and caused some nasty stuff in the distant past. All good stuff though none of it was shown on the show.
Traveller-61
Mongoose
The Wars of the Ancients was an excellent supplement that not only detailed the ships but lifted the veil on the Ancients and their backgrounds.
It was one of the best AOG ever brought out and I would love to see Mongoose do a version for the B5 RPG.
DW
It was one of the best AOG ever brought out and I would love to see Mongoose do a version for the B5 RPG.
DW
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Hey Sauron,
Maybe Darkness and Light has bene pushed back as they're putting so much work into it?
LBH
Maybe Darkness and Light has bene pushed back as they're putting so much work into it?
LBH
Traveller-61 said:
Matt Plonski has said on more than a couple of instances that he'd be more than happy to do the d20 version... I suspect his vision may end up differing from Mongoose's though - which would be a shame - it was a damn good supplement and gave you a whole new level of contempt for the Vorlons.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
frobisher said:
What, even more than Sheridan saying "Up Yours!" to Kosh :lol:
LBH
Traveller-61
Mongoose
frobisher said:
That would be quite a book!
But I agree about not fitting the Mongoose vision of things; the history of the Kirishiac Wars shows that. It would be good if they could use some of the stuff though; it seemed to fit all the threads of the Ancients together very nicely.
DW
Mouth of Sauron
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Then it'd better be the best Mongoose book ever published! :lol:
Seriously, though, what could they possibly still be working on/fixing? I've a feeling it has more to do with the announcement Matt made about the changes pushing a few books forward and most back.
The delayed book is always the one I want. :wink:
Lawdog1700 said:
I've pondered this one as well and while this contradicts Mongoose's explanation I find my explanation to fit the facts and is fairly elegant.
Basically, we go back to the fudamental differences between the Vorlons and Shadows. The Vorlons tried to perfect their minds to the point that they became energy beings. This made all of their race natural telepaths and gave them a great deal of offensive and defensive capability.
The Shadows, on the other hand, concentrated, on perfecting their physical selves. I wager that they didn't naturally look like they do now and that they have infused themselves with a great deal of nanotech or something even beyond Nanotech (after all, Technomage tech derives from them and I feel that the Shadows probably started out like the technomages). This gave them greater offense and defense than what they had naturally but the true enhancements that they received were in the realm of stealth. They can become invisible and/or intangible at will (possibly physically entering hyperspace as someone suggested).
So my POV is that while Shadows are tougher than the toughest of the younger races they aren't that much higher. Still, each Shadow in that episode took 5 or more rifle blasts before "dying" so that seems pretty tough. Shadows are just into stealth because they feel that it is better to be unnoticed by the enemy and obtain your objective with the minimum of effort than to just try and brazenly walk through them and shrug off their many attempts to stop you like a Vorlon would.
The Cheat
Mongoose
The Shadow guards on Centauri Prime didn't die.
We know from the Technomage novels that destroying a Shadow with conventional weaponry (as opposed to the Spell of Destruction) releases a huge bloom of light. Because Shadows are themselves beings of light, just like the Vorlons. They mearly choose to hide it under a carapace.
The shadows in question likely felt a huge amount of pain, and fled into hyperspace.
We know from the Technomage novels that destroying a Shadow with conventional weaponry (as opposed to the Spell of Destruction) releases a huge bloom of light. Because Shadows are themselves beings of light, just like the Vorlons. They mearly choose to hide it under a carapace.
The shadows in question likely felt a huge amount of pain, and fled into hyperspace.
Thats what i have heard as well so far, they felt pain and fled rather then die. Not saying its not impossible for First Ones to be killed by young races as Ulkesh (no not me, the other me) was killed by Sheridan, Kosh and loads of weapon fire. A shadow was killed on Narn long ago and i think a Minbari warlord also managed to kill a shadow as well. In general though you would have to be very smart to kill a First One or rely on such massive amount of numbers to overwhelm it but its likely that nearly all of them would die in the attempt of taking it down.
Same things goes among the First Ones themselves because there ar ranks in them. Lorien and the Triad are powerful beings of energy who can do almost anything. So you would think the Triad couldnt be defeated but the Walkers managed to nearly killing one member of the triad and making it run for its life.
Not to throw this thread of topic but also what would be interesting would be the Mid Born as well
Same things goes among the First Ones themselves because there ar ranks in them. Lorien and the Triad are powerful beings of energy who can do almost anything. So you would think the Triad couldnt be defeated but the Walkers managed to nearly killing one member of the triad and making it run for its life.
Not to throw this thread of topic but also what would be interesting would be the Mid Born as well
