First Ones

[frobisher]

True, but a human soldier can get as many as 69 hit points at level 20. Given the amount of fire Kosh 2 was taking in season 4 it seems that a couple of hundred hit points is not unreasonable.

Erm, why not just go with massive DR and some special rules instead? Ulkesh just wasn't taking damage even when he was out of his suit.

And remember the encounter suit is equipment as well, with a shield no less.

I dunno, D&D players are just hit point obsessed

I'm thinking somthing along the lines of an equivalent of a D20 challenge rating of 30. Also high Int, Wis, and Cha stats (28+).

And surely Con and Str as well given what we saw Ulkesh do..? I'd reign in Cha though as really, Vorlon's aren't that charismatic. I'd power their Psionics from their Con instead given Kosh's comments and as it's more what they are (quasi energy beings).

 

[Mongoose Gar]

Vorlons (and Shadows) have pretty absurd stats - +12 int and so on. They do have high Charismas, but both suffer penalties when dealing with the younger races - one Vorlon might be amazingly diplomatic when dealing with another, but they simply cannot apply the same techniques to humans and other primitives. It'd be like coming up with an argument based on subtle points of logic flavoured with Shakespear illusions, and then using it to convince your dog to sit, or roll over, or form a united alliance against the growing darkness.

 

[lastbesthope]

In B5 RPG 50 HP is a lot, even sheridan and Garibaldi don't have that many for their stats at 20th and 18th level in the Crusade supplement.

True, but a human soldier can get as many as 69 hit points at level 20. Given the amount of fire Kosh 2 was taking in season 4 it seems that a couple of hundred hit points is not unreasonable.

85 HP if you take Toughness every chance you get (8 times)

I think, used an online char gen

LBH

 

[Vorlon Servant]

And surely Con and Str as well given what we saw Ulkesh do..?

Didn't know what an energy being shound have for these stats.

Erm, why not just go with massive DR and some special rules instead?

Works for me.

Vorlons (and Shadows) have pretty absurd stats - +12 int and so on.

Yes!

 

[Brother Theo]

Has there been any discussion with JMS on this issue? I'd be curious to hear what he has to say. Heck, might open up a new area of B5 to mine for novels and backround.

Brother Theo

 

[Shadow Queen]

In B5 RPG 50 HP is a lot, even sheridan and Garibaldi don't have that many for their stats at 20th and 18th level in the Crusade supplement.

True, but a human soldier can get as many as 69 hit points at level 20. Given the amount of fire Kosh 2 was taking in season 4 it seems that a couple of hundred hit points is not unreasonable.

I'm thinking somthing along the lines of an equivalent of a D20 challenge rating of 30. Also high Int, Wis, and Cha stats (28+).

it says that a Vorlon can withstand anything up to a nuke .... dont forget the power coming from the station to brake the encounter suite. and when it broke the bit of Kosh that was in the Captain wrestled with Kosh2 to take him away from the station

 

[LoneStranger]

Yeah it seems that the best way to describe the ancient races would be instead of the long stat block and all the feats they have boil it down to this:

Do you have a nuke?
If yes, you stand a chance
If no, just give up now.

 

[Eryx]

In Babylon 5 wars by AOG there was a book Wars of the Ancients that covered the ancient past and how the ancients related to one anouther. Also a bunch of cool ships for each of the races. There has been a decent amount of fluff done on the ancients so getting there own book really woulden't be a problem.

Thats what I want. A little something about them, their ideology, interaction and a look at their view on the events in th universe.

 

[lastbesthope]

If I know Mongoose, and I do a little, you'll likely g et what you wnat Eryx, or something equally as cool.

LBH

 

[Lawdog1700]

Why was it so much easier to kill Morden's Shadow "guards" on Centauri Prime then?

 

[frobisher]

Why was it so much easier to kill Morden's Shadow "guards" on Centauri Prime then?

Shadows aren't that tough compared to Vorlons - it takes four of them to take Kosh down remember, plus they don't use a force field protected encounter suit, seemingly running around in the scud...

Also, they were kind of taken unawares (presumably as John Sheriden did to at least on on Z'Ha'Dum).

Just because you're all ancient and smart doesn't make you tough (unless you're a Kirishiac Lord that is )

 

[Eryx]

Why was it so much easier to kill Morden's Shadow "guards" on Centauri Prime then?

Just because you are one of the First One's doesn't mean you are physically more capable. The Vorlons (and maybe the Walkers of Sigma 957) are beings of energy mostly so they would be hurt less by energy weapons but the Shadows were pure phyiscal beings.

 

[LoneStranger]

I dunno about pure physical beings, I think the Shadows could exist in real and hyperspace at the same time. That kinda points to a partial energy being to me.

 

[frobisher]

I dunno about pure physical beings, I think the Shadows could exist in real and hyperspace at the same time. That kinda points to a partial energy being to me.

It just requires the ability to manipulate energies.

 

[lastbesthope]

Even Lorien mentions to Sheridan that it was easy to kill Shadows because they are "like you" but Vorlons are different.

LBH

 

[Triggy]

Wraith,

If people want to have First One PCs let them. I know I wouldn't want them in my game, but some people might want to play very high level games.

LBH

Of course, if the relevant player can control him/herself then a firstone PC could work very well. They'd have to control their instincts and be very conservative but that level of power in conjunction with a level of fear (for the future) would be fun and a challenge! All I can say is that so long as your players want to play for fun and recreation rather than "winning" then it would be amazing to see a well enacted First One PC.

 

[Triggy]

Why was it so much easier to kill Morden's Shadow "guards" on Centauri Prime then?

Shadows aren't that tough compared to Vorlons - it takes four of them to take Kosh down remember, plus they don't use a force field protected encounter suit, seemingly running around in the scud...

Also, they were kind of taken unawares (presumably as John Sheriden did to at least on on Z'Ha'Dum).

Just because you're all ancient and smart doesn't make you tough (unless you're a Kirishiac Lord that is )

Don't need to be smart, just put me in a Darkknife and let me play some games and I'll have fun )

 

[Vorlon Servant]

Shadows aren't that tough compared to Vorlons - it takes four of them to take Kosh down remember

Perhaps they were just playing safe.

but the Shadows were pure phyiscal beings.

Why was it so much easier to kill Morden's Shadow "guards" on Centauri Prime then?

The series 4 source book states that the guards may simply have fled the fire and that all of the firs ones exist in at least a partialy energy state.

Even Lorien mentions to Sheridan that it was easy to kill Shadows because they are "like you" but Vorlons are different.

At no point did he say this. The line was:

"The Shadows were ablre to kill Kosh because they were, like him, First Ones. For you this will be much more difficult. You have never seen a Vorlon enraged. They are more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

 

[Traveller-61]

Why was it so much easier to kill Morden's Shadow "guards" on Centauri Prime then?

I don't think they did kill them. I believe that JMS himself posted that they had just been driven off, not killed.

DW

 

[lastbesthope]

Even Lorien mentions to Sheridan that it was easy to kill Shadows because they are "like you" but Vorlons are different.

At no point did he say this. The line was:

"The Shadows were ablre to kill Kosh because they were, like him, First Ones. For you this will be much more difficult. You have never seen a Vorlon enraged. They are more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

You're right, my bad. I will do better, I finally got my season 4 DVDs back after more than a year so they wiull be rewatched post haste.

But we know Sheridan must have had some success against the Shadows with his PPG on Z'Ha'Dum or he'd never have made it to the edge of the abyss alive.

LBH