Firing on a Support Fighter

[Sulfurdown]

Scenario: Nial in support of a White Star, inbound trio of Starfuries at 2" from the White Star.

A) Can the Starfuries dogfight the Nial, ignoring the White Star?

B) Can the Starfuries fire on the Nial?

C) Assuming the Starfury player chooses not to engage either the White Star or the Nial, for whatever reason, can the Nial fire on the Starfuries?

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Scenario: Nial in support of a White Star, inbound trio of Starfuries at 2" from the White Star.

A) Can the Starfuries dogfight the Nial, ignoring the White Star?

B) Can the Starfuries fire on the Nial?

C) Assuming the Starfury player chooses not to engage either the White Star or the Nial, for whatever reason, can the Nial fire on the Starfuries?

Yes, Yes and Dunno... that one I've never had a good answer to. I say no, if it's in Support, it has to reserve it's actions for intercepting attacking fighters.

Wulf

 

[Burger]

A) If they move into base contact with the Nial then yes. If they stay at 2" then no.
B) Yes
C) No

 

[Obsidian]

A) Can the Starfuries dogfight the Nial, ignoring the White Star?

Yes

B) Can the Starfuries fire on the Nial?

Yes, but they will need to beat the stealth and dodge scores of the Nial just like any other non AF weapon.

C) Assuming the Starfury player chooses not to engage either the White Star or the Nial, for whatever reason, can the Nial fire on the Starfuries?

Yes. While the supporting craft may not move independantly of the ship they are supporting (unless intentionally removing itself from the support role) they do fire independantly so they can go right ahead and fire on the Starfuries or any other ship in range if they like. The Starfuries will have their dodge roll of course, but other than that there are no restrictions.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Yes. While the supporting craft may not move independantly of the ship they are supporting (unless intentionally removing itself from the support role) they do fire independantly so they can go right ahead and fire on the Starfuries or any other ship in range if they like. The Starfuries will have their dodge roll of course, but other than that there are no restrictions.

I (and in fact we) disagree.

Wulf

 

[Obsidian]

I (and in fact we) disagree.

Fair enough, but on what grounds? At first you said you didn't know and now you are saying "No"? What changed your mind?

 

[Burger]

Ah, here you go:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21942
Nothing official here, but several playtesters (and playtesters are always right aren't they )

 

[Locutus9956]

Im incined to agree with Obsidian tbh. Theres nothing noted anywhere in the rules to state that supporting craft cannot fire and indeed it makes sense too, if you were escorting a ship and a hostile craft passed within firing range wouldnt you take the shot if you had the chance as it passed (assuming amunition was not an issue (which its not with most B5 weapons)?

 

[Reaverman]

I'm pretty sure it's been in rulesmasters, can't find it now though, must've got deleted :roll:

Weve been through this before, I asked it. But I dont think we ever got a definitive answer.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Fair enough, but on what grounds? At first you said you didn't know and now you are saying "No"? What changed your mind?

I said I didn't have an official ruling, but I wouldn't allow it. What order do you do things in? I could see it if the Supporting fighter has to wait until everything else has fired first, then, if it hasn't already been in a Dogfight to intercept anything, THEN I could see a reason to allow it to fire. But not both Dogfighting AND firing.
Wulf

 

[Reaverman]

in fact

Firing on CAP (CSP?) fighters seems quite reasonable. After all, the fighters get their Dodge, and the enemy isn't firing on the ship they're supporting (so they are, in a way, still doing their job).

 

[Wulf Corbett]

in fact

.

You corrected that quick enough...

Wulf Coebert (apparently)

 

[Reaverman]

in fact

.

You corrected that quick enough...

Wulf Coebert (apparently)

:wink:

 

[animus]

What's "rulemaster"?

 

[Wulf Corbett]

What's "rulemaster"?

The Rulesmasters forum. http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=75

Wulf

 

[Sulfurdown]

This might reveal some sequencing issues. As I see it there are four main possibilities.

If you have player [A] (with fighter's in support roll) and player (with fighters attacking)

wins initiative, attacks the capital ship. [A]'s fighters dogfight, end of their abilities (since they can't dogfight and shoot).

wins initiative, doesn't attack the capital ship. [A] may choose to fire on any targets (but can't dogfight since it's in support and not moving on it's own).

[A] wins initiative - chooses not to fire support fighters. must still deal with support fighters if he chooses to attack the capital ship.


here is the final one that throws things into confusion for me.

[A] wins initiative - chooses to fire on enemy fighters. Does fear the supporting ships that fired because you can't fire and dogfight?

 

[Burger]

Exactly: thats why most people think supporting ships can't fire as well as support.

 

[Obsidian]

I could see it if the Supporting fighter has to wait until everything else has fired first, then, if it hasn't already been in a Dogfight to intercept anything, THEN I could see a reason to allow it to fire. But not both Dogfighting AND firing.

That's exactly what I was talking about in my response. To clarify, if an enemy is within firing range of a supporting fighter that has not been engaged in any way that fighter may use its acton in the firing phase to fire upon that enemy if it so chooses. If it gets drawn into a dogfight because an enemy fighter has made base contact with it or the ship it is supporting has been targetted then the ensuing dogfight is the escorts action for the round.

In the scenario being presented, he asked if a Nial escorting a White Star could fire on a Starfury that for some bizzare reason decided to stop 2" away from the White Star and then not fire on it. I highly doubt that would happen during a game, but in theory it could.

 

[Ripple]

One solution might be to simply say that a fighter that is moving in support can choose during its aux craft fire initiation phase to fire and forgo support interceptions. As there are no actual rules for going off support this has as much validity as not allowing it to shoot and adds tactical choice to the acting player. You are trying to defend you ship, whether you do that by distance fire or by dogfight should not be relevant. Especially if you the attacking stack is say two starfuries and a T-bolt. Do you get drawn off by a starfury because you wily opponent fired it first or do you engage that T-bolt at range before the 'furies can force you to engage them?

I prefer to play the rules as written and only add restrictive rules when there is a clear conflict. Ruleswise there is no restriction on firing and dogfighting, only that in the acting players turn he nominates 'his' flights attacks and/or dogfights if in base contact with enemy flights. His opponent then does the same for his surviving flights. Note the comments in the dogfighting section that if you drew a dogfight you must fight again, and if you were attacked by multiple flights you you will still be in base contact indicating that you would fight again...though this circumstance seems contradicted by the third paragraph 'may never conduct a dogfight against a flight they have already helped support against.' I would interpret that as 'may not initiate' rather than conduct.

Anyway, just my thoughts looking through the rules as written. But I am told I am wrong on most things related to this game.

Ripple