Fire Zone / Suppresion Question

[The Old Soldier]

Thanks Old Soldier, That's exactly the explanation I've been looking for.

Your wecome, but take a look at Cordas post responding to this. He is correct about the double suppression thing with a MG.

That said, the unit could only be suppressed once, UNLESS it was fired on again during that turn (the remaining 2 models had 4 DD allocated to it), and it became suppressed again, which would make it double suppressed.

 

[lastbesthope]

Second the fire zone/LoS rules seem to be a bit vague. According to the rules you can fire at any point and then all models within 6" of this point are able to be hit. Then you determine line of sight for the models to the target point. What about models that have LoS to the target point but don't have LoS to the target models? We had just the three models that had LoS to the enemy models get to shoot (seemed the most fair) but the rules seem to imply that had the squad shot at a target point that they could all see and included the enemy in the 6" radius you would have rolled dice for every mini in the squad and then taken the three highest (for the three models that actually had LoS to the enemy and not just the target point for the fire zome). If possible I'd like a clarification on this one.

Iasked a similar question here on this thread:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25532&start=0

8 ) I have a unit of 4 infantry Troopers A, B, C and D. They come upon a target squad of infantry W, X, Y and Z. A, B, C & D pick there fire zone at a point between W, X, Y and Z which places all 4 targets in the Fire Zone. All 4 have LoS to the Fire Zone centre. However, due to terrain, A & B can only see W and X, similarly C&D can only see Y & Z. SO can A&B only roll Damage Dice against W and X, similarly for C, D vs Y,Z. Or can all squad members assign Damage Dice to all 4 targets within the fire zone.

And here's what Matt said:

8. Yes, they all allocate dice together, as they are always rolled together (you'll find this all evens out during play).

Hope this helps

LBH

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

Thanks guys this is helping out quite a bit.
lastbesthope- thanks for pointing that one out it answers part of the question but the problem that I had is that 5 of the 8 models couldn't see the actual enemy models but could see the target fire zone center. I want to know which is the proper porceedure/outcome.

1) You roll 3 dice for the 3 minis that can see both the center of the fire zone as well as the enemy models.

2)You roll 8 dice and take the 3 highest since even though everyone can see the center of the fire zone only three can actually see the enemy models.

3)You roll 8 dice and allocate all of them since all the models can see the center of the fire zone even though they can't all see the actual enemy models.

 

[The Old Soldier]

Thanks guys this is helping out quite a bit.
lastbesthope- thanks for pointing that one out it answers part of the question but the problem that I had is that 5 of the 8 models couldn't see the actual enemy models but could see the target fire zone center. I want to know which is the proper porceedure/outcome.

1) You roll 3 dice for the 3 minis that can see both the center of the fire zone as well as the enemy models.

2)You roll 8 dice and take the 3 highest since even though everyone can see the center of the fire zone only three can actually see the enemy models.

3)You roll 8 dice and allocate all of them since all the models can see the center of the fire zone even though they can't all see the actual enemy models.

Just remember to toss out those 1s before you allocate your dice, and you will be golden.

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

Just remember to toss out those 1s before you allocate your dice, and you will be golden.

Yes but should I use methos 1, 2, or 3?

 

[cordas]

Just remember to toss out those 1s before you allocate your dice, and you will be golden.

Yes but should I use methos 1, 2, or 3?

My reading is that the firing models need both LOS to the FP and the models inside the FZ, so only 3 troops would be shooting. Answer 1.

I love those sweeping answers as well that really make you wonder if the poster has even read your post

 

[The Old Soldier]

As long as one of the shooting models can see the enemy, your fine. So lets say you have 4 models firing on 4 models. You pick a point for your firezone that all firing models can see, it doesn't have to be a enemy model, just a point on the ground.

Now you created a firezone and all the enemy models are in it. So far, so good. While not all the target models can be seen by all the firing models, each target model CAN be seen by at least one of the firing models.

Next step is to roll your dice. Say you have 6 DD to roll. You roll a 1,1,2,3,4,6. The target models have a 4+ target score and a 6+ Kill score, and all are in the open. (i'm making it simple). You first remove the 1s from the DD rolled. Then you allocate the remaining DD.

The 6 is a kill so the closest targeted model is removed, then the remaining dice are allocated to the remaining models in the fire zone. One of the dice allocated is good enough for a hit, so roll to save if you have a save to roll. Say you did and you made the required score.

Then the targeted unit would have lost 1 model. They started out with 4 models and 4 dice were allocated to them. That is enough for a suppression!! Good job soldier!!! 8)

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

So cordas votes for method 1 and The Old Soldier votes for method 3.

Looks like there is a bit of a question on this one then. I really hope to find out the intended game mechanic on this one because it will really impact on the way the game is played.

 

[The Old Soldier]

So cordas votes for method 1 and The Old Soldier votes for method 3.

Looks like there is a bit of a question on this one then. I really hope to find out the intended game mechanic on this one because it will really impact on the way the game is played.

Like I said, it only works if at least one firing model can see the target and all the firing models can see the point for the firezone. If for a example you had 4 targets in a firezone and 4 models were firing, if any of the targets could not be seen by ANY of the firing models then those target models could NOT have DD allocated to them.

Forget method 1,2,3. and just go with what I stated in this and the last post, and you will be fine.

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

So according to this you'd never need to actually see the enemy just be able to see a spot that has them within 6" of it?

 

[Mr Evil]

you can only allocate dice to whats in LOS no los no dice allocation so no supression, if you can only see one guy then fine, you get to probably kill him and supress the unit (scare them about going around the corner.)

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

I went back and re read the rules and it does appear that #1 is correct. The shooters have to have LOS to both the fire zone center and the targets in the fire zone.

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

Thanks for the patience with my questions. I want to make sure that I have a solid grasp on exactly how the rules work before deciding on which faction to go get tonight.

Next question I think is just a clarification between 'solid wall' and cover which seems to include walls but perhaps not in this situation.

Cover will help your units survive incoming fi re by making them harder to hit. A model has to be touching (on the opposite side of the terrain to
the fi ring model) or within suitable terrain to take advantage of Cover. Otherwise, the terrain can only obscure or block Line of Sight (see above).
For the purposes of Line of Sight, a fi ring model may ‘see through’ any Cover within a number of inches equal to its Size score. It may also ‘see
through’ any Cover within a number of inches to the target model that is equal to the target model’s Size score.

So a tank can 'see through' 4" of a wall?


If a model is defending a hedge you can't 'tough it' since the terrain is interposed. Does that mean you can't perform close combat?




Is there a penalty for leaving close combat?

 

[lastbesthope]

My take on Matt's answer to some models not being visible to all models would be:

If any model in the firing squad can see any model in the fire zone, then you add it's dice to those that are rolled and allocated.

If any model in the fire zone can't be seen by any model in the attacking unit, it can't have damage dice allocated to it.

The rest should even out over play as Matt said.

LBH

 

[The Old Soldier]

My take on Matt's answer to some models not being visible to all models would be:

If any model in the firing squad can see any model in the fire zone, then you add it's dice to those that are rolled and allocated.

If any model in the fire zone can't be seen by any model in the attacking unit, it can't have damage dice allocated to it.

The rest should even out over play as Matt said.

LBH

Yep, that was my take on it also. I even gave a couple of examples.

 

[Xorrandor]

So a tank can 'see through' 4" of a wall?

I've been interpreting this as applying to terrain you can enter, like woods or rubble. A tank doesn't really "enter" a wall, except by demolishing it, so it can't see through the wall. (And we don't even have the "wall demolishing" rules available yet...) I suppose according to the rules you could argue that a tank could shoot through a <4" wide building if it was touching one side, but a) your opponent could shoot back, and b) that's silly enough that no one has tried arguing it.

If a model is defending a hedge you can't 'tough it' since the terrain is interposed. Does that mean you can't perform close combat?

No idea on this, sorry.

Is there a penalty for leaving close combat?

No, in fact, you're required to at the end of the charge action. Or, someone is required to at least, as described in the close combat rules.

 

[lastbesthope]

Just in case anyone hasn't seen this thread:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25532

A great many BF Evo questions and clarifications have been given official answers by Matthew

LBH

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

Ok so the 'official' seems to be roll all dice for the squad that can see the center of the fire zone and then pick the highest dice equal to the number of models that can actually 'see' the enemy. At least we know what the line is but at the FLGS we're going to be using the 'only people who can see the fire zone and the enemy can roll dice'. It may not be exactly what is wanted but the other way is just plain silly.


That and we would have about 6 fewer players if we went with that line of reasoning.

 

[Paladin]

Ok so the 'official' seems to be roll all dice for the squad that can see the center of the fire zone and then pick the highest dice equal to the number of models that can actually 'see' the enemy. At least we know what the line is but at the FLGS we're going to be using the 'only people who can see the fire zone and the enemy can roll dice'. It may not be exactly what is wanted but the other way is just plain silly.


That and we would have about 6 fewer players if we went with that line of reasoning.

Agreed. You really should have to have at least one enemy in LOS to participate in damage.