Fire Zone / Suppresion Question

[Anpu42]

This may have already been asked.
I have a M1A2 fire at and enemy MEA Infantry Squad in the open about 12” away.
For my first action I Fire.
-120mm M256 Gun [Roll a 7+4=11]
-M2HB .50 Cal [Roll 4+4+1=9]
-MG [Roll 1, 1, 6]
For my Second Action I Fire.
-M2HB .50 Cal [2+4+1=7]
-MG [Roll 1, 5, 5]
-MG [1, 5, 6]
All of these are at the same squad and all fall into the fire zone.
1] Does each Action create its own Fire Zone?
-The 1st Fire Action Kills 3 outright from Kill Shots, and that’s all, and I create 5 points of Suppression
-The 2nd Fire Action Kills 2 outright from Kill Shots, 3 others because they get no save and create 10 points of suppression.

Or

Do I Kill 5 outright, 3 just get no save and 15 Points of suppression. I am assuming that the 120mm M256 Gun was only able to hit one model.

Please tell me what is right and wrong.

Thank you for your time.
Anpu42
=0o0=

 

[Major Chaos]

Different action create diferent firezones. Check for supression after each. Do not add together.

Also note that the main gun rolls extra dice in the firezone per it's special rules.

 

[Anpu42]

Thank you.
BTW: what is the Point of the M2HB having its own Fire Zone?

 

[Mr Evil]

so you can supress another enemy fire team i gues.

 

[The Old Soldier]

Not only does the main gun cause multiple damage to the troops, but.....

doesn't the ones get removed and do NOT count toward suppression.

 

[Xorrandor]

This may have already been asked.
I have a M1A2 fire at and enemy MEA Infantry Squad in the open about 12” away.
For my first action I Fire.
-120mm M256 Gun [Roll a 7+4=11]
-M2HB .50 Cal [Roll 4+4+1=9]
-MG [Roll 1, 1, 6]
For my Second Action I Fire.
-M2HB .50 Cal [2+4+1=7]
-MG [Roll 1, 5, 5]
-MG [1, 5, 6]
All of these are at the same squad and all fall into the fire zone.
1] Does each Action create its own Fire Zone?
-The 1st Fire Action Kills 3 outright from Kill Shots, and that’s all, and I create 5 points of Suppression
-The 2nd Fire Action Kills 2 outright from Kill Shots, 3 others because they get no save and create 10 points of suppression.

Or

Do I Kill 5 outright, 3 just get no save and 15 Points of suppression. I am assuming that the 120mm M256 Gun was only able to hit one model.

Please tell me what is right and wrong.

OK, first problem:
If a gun rolls multiple dice (like the M2HB and MGs), you don't add the dice together. So the first action with the M2MG is: 4+1, 4+1 = 5, 5; the second is 2+1, 4+1 = 3, 5.

So, you get 7 points of supression, 2 Kills and 2 Targets out of the first action. (As you say, no Armor means 4 total removed models.)
You get 12 points of supression, 1 Kill and 4 Targets out of the second action.
Final result: 9 dead models. If the unit started the turn with 16 or fewer units (!), then it is also suppressed: the 7 supression points from the first action would only be enough to supress a 7-man squad (which would already by dead after 9 casualties), and the 12 supression points would be applied after the first action's 4 casualties.

The reason you would want multiple fire zones: as you can see, any single reasonably sized unit will be torn apart by a fully armed and operational battle station, I mean, M1. But if you have one three-man fire team to your right, another to your left, and a mob in front of you you will want to take on multiple targets to make sure none of those nasty RPGs get a shot in.

 

[Anpu42]

OK, first problem:
If a gun rolls multiple dice (like the M2HB and MGs), you don't add the dice together. So the first action with the M2MG is: 4+1, 4+1 = 5, 5; the second is 2+1, 4+1 = 3, 5.

The Downloaded card for the M1A1 i have states the Damage is 2d6+1, so it should read 2xd6+1

 

[Mr Evil]

2D6 and 2xD6 is the same

D6x2 is different

 

[Locutus9956]

I think hes trying to stress that you get 2d6 both rolled seperately with a +1 bouns to each rather than 2d6 totalled and +1 added to them.

Most wargames would call 2d6+1 a total damage.

It should to be accurate read 2(d6+1) but putting brackets on a ruleset scares people and makes them think theyre reading a maths text book imho

 

[Mr Evil]

i see

the plus 1 id to each dice ie 5D10+9 would meen you roll 5 ten sided dice and add 9 to each dice result and then apply each dice to a target.

does that help

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Not only does the main gun cause multiple damage to the troops, but.....

doesn't the ones get removed and do NOT count toward suppression.

The total number of troops in the squad before firing count towards supression - it works on allocating damage dice to their target.

 

[Xorrandor]

The Downloaded card for the M1A1 i have states the Damage is 2d6+1, so it should read 2xd6+1

No, Mongoose uses the 2d6+1 notation for all their cards; it's not the industry standard, but it does save all that ink for the 'x's...

This is only sort of explained in the basic rules, admittedly: the "Close Combat" description from the card tells you that the dice aren't added together, but the Shooting description doesn't really say this explicitly. They imply it, talking about damage dice, but I can see where someone might be confused. Old SST hands (or SST dilletantes like me) are so used to the notation that they miss it.

 

[Anpu42]

It is confusing
On the MiA2
120mm M256 Gun [d10+4]
M2 50. MG [2d6+1]
MG [3xd6]
Close Combat-4xd10

USMC Infantry Squad
M-16A4 Assualt Rifle [d6]
M-203 Grenade Launcher [d6+1]
M-249 SAW [2xd6]

I thought that it should of been 2xd6+1, but being a recovering 40k player I am used to "The Rule Police" and was not shure, mbaby that should have been my 1st question.

 

[Xorrandor]

Well, it appears we're both wrong . The actual printed card for the M1A2 says 2xd6+1 for the 50 cal, so everything is OK (other than whatever downloaded card you were using). I guess I hadn't noticed the new 'x's: psychology in action. Mea culpa. (And kudos to Mongoose for clearing this up, since it will make things easier for new players.)

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

Not only does the main gun cause multiple damage to the troops, but.....

doesn't the ones get removed and do NOT count toward suppression.

The total number of troops in the squad before firing count towards supression - it works on allocating damage dice to their target.

Just played my first demo today at the FLGS with the demo forces that the store had. The store owner had been going through the rules a couple times and was showing me how it played but we had a couple things that needed clarified.

First would be what I quoted. Every model in the squad firing adds to the suppression. So the MEA automatically suppress the British?



Second the fire zone/LoS rules seem to be a bit vague. According to the rules you can fire at any point and then all models within 6" of this point are able to be hit. Then you determine line of sight for the models to the target point. What about models that have LoS to the target point but don't have LoS to the target models? We had just the three models that had LoS to the enemy models get to shoot (seemed the most fair) but the rules seem to imply that had the squad shot at a target point that they could all see and included the enemy in the 6" radius you would have rolled dice for every mini in the squad and then taken the three highest (for the three models that actually had LoS to the enemy and not just the target point for the fire zome). If possible I'd like a clarification on this one.


Thanks. The next step is trying to figure out which faction to go with.....

 

[Shadow4ce]

Thank you.
BTW: what is the Point of the M2HB having its own Fire Zone?

So when your main gun and or other MGs are firing at troops on the ground, your Ma Deuce can shoot your opponent's helicopter out of the air. :wink:

 

[Major Chaos]

Second the fire zone/LoS rules seem to be a bit vague. According to the rules you can fire at any point and then all models within 6" of this point are able to be hit. Then you determine line of sight for the models to the target point. What about models that have LoS to the target point but don't have LoS to the target models? We had just the three models that had LoS to the enemy models get to shoot (seemed the most fair) but the rules seem to imply that had the squad shot at a target point that they could all see and included the enemy in the 6" radius you would have rolled dice for every mini in the squad and then taken the three highest (for the three models that actually had LoS to the enemy and not just the target point for the fire zome). If possible I'd like a clarification on this one.


Thanks. The next step is trying to figure out which faction to go with.....

Im trying to read those rules under LOS and Fire Zones literally and it is actually a little hard. The way I play here is that you need LOS to pick the center of the Fire Zone. You then also need LOS from at least one model in the firing unit to allocate hits to a model in the Fire Zone. Cover and obscurement are given if even LOS from one model in the firing unit is not clear.

I believe this is what the rules are saying to do.

 

[The Old Soldier]

It is NOT the number of models firing that count toward suppression, but the total of the number of DD that are allocated VS. the number of models in the fired on unit.

Example a unit fires on a enemy unit. The enemy unit has 4 models in it, 3 of the models are in the firezone, but only two can be seen. Models are in the open. 9 DD are rolled against the unit, there were two 1s rolled.

Those two 1s are removed and the other 7 dice are allocated. One dice was high enough for a kill, so the closest model is removed, there were 3 other dice that were high enough to score on the target. All those dice would be allocated to the remaining model that can be seen. That model makes 3 savings rolls and fails one of them, so that model is removed.

Now for suppression 7 dice were allocated against 4 models. The unit is suppressed. If there had been one less one rolled at the beginning then the unit would have been doubled suppressed.

 

[Sgt. Brassones]

Thanks Old Soldier, That's exactly the explanation I've been looking for.

 

[cordas]

Those two 1s are removed and the other 7 dice are allocated. One dice was high enough for a kill, so the closest model is removed, there were 3 other dice that were high enough to score on the target. All those dice would be allocated to the remaining model that can be seen. That model makes 3 savings rolls and fails one of them, so that model is removed.

Now for suppression 7 dice were allocated against 4 models. The unit is suppressed. If there had been one less one rolled at the beginning then the unit would have been doubled suppressed.

Also on the allocation of DD, if one of the two figures in the FZ and LOS had been in cover (say the unit was half in woods) then when the highest DD reaches that figure in cover it needs to be able to hit its adjusted target score, if it can't then it get allocated to one of the figures that have no cover (or obscurement bonus).

The shooting player can also allocate DD to models that have had a KILL already allocated to them, this isn't relevant currently in BF: Evo; but in SST: Evo Skinnies have an agile save that allows them a save even if they have been KILLED (some unit rules or the advanced rules might make this relevant in the future for BF: Evo).

For Double Suppresion a MG needs to be fired (or a gun that gives the DS rule), and each model in the unit needs to be allocated a 2 DD. As its stated in the example that not ever model in the unit able to be allocated DD then it is impossible for the unit to be DS.