'Fiery Trial' First Module query

[Norlion]

FYI the IFH (I've found her website can be found here) http://ifh.firstones.com/.

There hyperspace system seems pretty good but honestly I only got impression that there beacons, but I never felt that the show explained how the beacons transmitted. Narrow beams from beacon to beacon make sense along with a short range general spherical transmission.

 

[Jenesis]

Heh, it seems that people decided they'd rather not read through my lengthy post - I'd already mentioned I've Found Her.

I think the key to FTL travel via hyperspace is not that the speed of light is higher in hyperspace - after all, think how long it'd take you to accelerate to that speed - but that travelling a certain distance in hyperspace will take you a great deal further in normal space. Travel five miles in hyperspace, and then jump back to normal space, and you'll be tens of thousands of miles from where you started.

I think that the problem that these games - from RPGs to I've Found Her - come up against, as has been suggested above, is that hyperspace is not consistently described in the series, its mechanics adjusting to suit the storyline, a bit like the expanding ships from the series.

Another theory, perhaps - large warships have sufficient inertia to avoid being swept off course by hyperspace currents (unfortunately, 'gravitational tides' are mentioned in various places, which of course impart the same acceleration no matter your mass), and so can project their courses with sufficient accuracy to depart from the tight-beam transmissions between gates. Also, if the direction of the tidal forces is essentially random, or at least uniformly distributed, then they will tend to even out over time, so provided you move with sufficient speed that a given current only moves you slightly off course before you're past it, you can go in a straight line largely without worry - and if you can detect the forces acting on you, you can correct for them.

 

[lastbesthope]

I think the key to FTL travel via hyperspace is not that the speed of light is higher in hyperspace - after all, think how long it'd take you to accelerate to that speed - but that travelling a certain distance in hyperspace will take you a great deal further in normal space. Travel five miles in hyperspace, and then jump back to normal space, and you'll be tens of thousands of miles from where you started.

A valid point, I think it might be stated in the show but it might be obvious anyway, the laws of Physics as we, and often the people of the B5 universe, understand them are not the same in hyperspace.

I think that the problem that these games - from RPGs to I've Found Her - come up against, as has been suggested above, is that hyperspace is not consistently described in the series, its mechanics adjusting to suit the storyline, a bit like the expanding ships from the series.

Even JMS has admitted that "The White Star travels at the speed of plot!"

Another theory, perhaps - large warships have sufficient inertia to avoid being swept off course by hyperspace currents (unfortunately, 'gravitational tides' are mentioned in various places, which of course impart the same acceleration no matter your mass), and so can project their courses with sufficient accuracy to depart from the tight-beam transmissions between gates. Also, if the direction of the tidal forces is essentially random, or at least uniformly distributed, then they will tend to even out over time, so provided you move with sufficient speed that a given current only moves you slightly off course before you're past it, you can go in a straight line largely without worry - and if you can detect the forces acting on you, you can correct for them.

In the episode where the Cortez needs rescuing (Episode 204, "A Distant Star"), they talk about the Cortez getting dragged down the gravity well or somesuch, implying that the gravitational pull goes largely in one direction. Or at least that's my take on it.

LBH

Just trying to help

 

[Anonymous]

Percolating this one back up

Finally getting around to reading the module. I've got a few issues I'd like clarified so far, some of which have already been discussed.

The first is the travel time in the first adventure. First time it is mentioned in the module, the planet is 8 days away. During the initial discussion, the PC's are told it is 3 days away. Later they board the ship and are told that the trip will take 8 days. People werer talking about jumps and hyperspace time differences. I think the second figure was just wrong and the 8 day figure is what was intended.

The other two issues I have are with some times. This module is supposed to start almost immediately after Midnight On the Firing Line, after B5 had been online for about, what, 9 months? The USA Today Article on the Pub says that the owner had been trying to open it for a year and a half. You mean while the station was still under construction?? Anderson's diplomatic contact, can't remember her name right now, has a similar issue, having been doing diplomatic work on the station for two years...again, what, while they were building it?

If I have any more questions, I will be sure to bring them up. I haven't gotten very far yet, only to the encounter with the Drazi enroute to the planet.

 

[lastbesthope]

The other two issues I have are with some times. This module is supposed to start almost immediately after Midnight On the Firing Line, after B5 had been online for about, what, 9 months? The USA Today Article on the Pub says that the owner had been trying to open it for a year and a half. You mean while the station was still under construction?? Anderson's diplomatic contact, can't remember her name right now, has a similar issue, having been doing diplomatic work on the station for two years...again, what, while they were building it?

In the Official B5 timeline it states:

Sinclair took command of B5 Monday 9th March 2256
The Gathering takes place Sun 3rd January to Fri 8th January 2257
Midnight on the Firing Line takes place February 2258

So by this time B5 has been online (or at least under Sinclair's command for almost 2 years. So plenty of time to have been trying to open a bar for a year and a half.

I haven't read "The Fiery Trial" yet but modern day shops start planning store openings and looking for premises long before the shopping centres that build them are complete. Also he could be referring to any delays that may have happened during construction delaying his opening.

The last bit is just IMHO but the dates from the timeline are official (JMS sanctioned and everything!)

Hope this helps!

LBH
"Making other geeks seem cool by comparison!"

 

[PottsBr]

Sinclair must have been overseeing the final year of construction then, because Infection is the one year anniversary of the station going online. They made a big deal over this with the ISN interview of Sinclair and all the oddsmakers expectations of the station lasting that long.

I could see the pub trying to get in early, either to serve construction crews and staff, or just because the process is lengthy, but I still question the presence of that ambassidorial aide a full year before any ambassidorial tasks would have been taking place. I suppose that the Minbari and Centairi who helped fund the station might have been sending representatives to keep an eye on their investment and to keep watch over Sinclair.

I always consider the actual episodes as my main source whenever I find disagreements between that and other sources. I will only use other sources if the information is not presented in an episode, or episodes contradict eachother.

 

[PottsBr]

I continue to make my way through the Fiery Trial module. The following is just a comment, more than a problem.

Who's bright idea was it to put weapons with a facing of boresight on a space station?? Freedom Staion has four of these weapons. The whole point of a boresight weapon is that you point your ship at the target to fire. This is a space station. It can't maneuver...or can it?? Anyone one with any sense would just stay out from in front of the station during an attack, rendering the boresight weapons impotent.

 

[frobisher]

I continue to make my way through the Fiery Trial module. The following is just a comment, more than a problem.

Who's bright idea was it to put weapons with a facing of boresight on a space station?? Freedom Staion has four of these weapons. The whole point of a boresight weapon is that you point your ship at the target to fire. This is a space station. It can't maneuver...or can it?? Anyone one with any sense would just stay out from in front of the station during an attack, rendering the boresight weapons impotent.

At a rough guess (I don't have the module to hand but I do have the B5W SCS for the thing) aren't these four weapons on each "side" of the base (having four structure blocks divided between each quadrant of the ring) and they are boresight withrespect to each "side"?

The SCS has a total of 16 weapons in groups of four.

Oh, and bases like that do rotate (to generate gravity) thus bringing the other weapons around.

 

[PottsBr]

That makes sense, though it would be a nightmare to keep track of. They can only shoot in the plane that they rotate in, and only when they rotate into position. You'd have to know the starting point of the station in the combat and how fast it was rotating.

B5 rotates at about 60mph, and is about 3 miles around, so any given gun would come around in about 3 minutes. If you had 36 guns equidistant about the outside (boresight guns) you would always have one (and only one) in position to fire each round. Give me something with a greater field of fire anyday.

Freedom station is much smaller, so in order to maintain gravity it has to be turning faster. The guns would each come around more often, but with only four there will be gaps.

I can picture the enemy ships matching the station's spin in the gaps between weapons, especially fighters

My original assumption was that the guns would point towards the front and be able to prevent any hostile ship from approaching the docking bays. In order to dock, you have to come into the kill zone of those boresight guns.

 

[lastbesthope]

B5 rotates at about 60mph, and is about 3 miles around, so any given gun would come around in about 3 minutes. If you had 36 guns equidistant about the outside (boresight guns) you would always have one (and only one) in position to fire each round. Give me something with a greater field of fire anyday.

PottsBr,

I'm guessing you got the 60 mph thing from the Season 2 end episode "The Fall of Night". I was never quite happy about that. It's never said whether they mean his 'vertical' impact speed, the tangential velocity of the 'ground' when he hits it or a combination of the 2. I tried some numbers and could never satisfy myself that it was right given the size of Bab 5 and the required rotation rates to generate anything vlose to normal gravity. (I used to do a lot of Physics and SpaceFlight Dynamics, even worked for the European Space Agency once)

However, assuming that iit was right and it referred to the tangential velocity. The tangential velocity on the outer hull would be greater as v=rw (read the w as a lower case Omega) The further oout you are, the bigger r is and the larger your velocity for a given angular rotation, omega.

And besides, given that B5 is 5 miles long, I don't think it is 3 miles around as this would mean the station had a radius of almost a mile. It doesn't look like that to me. Although your numbers are right for 60 mph velocity and 3 mile circumference, I just think those numbers are wrong.

Don't take this post personally, I think they just fluffed the 60 mph number in the script.

LBH
Excerpt from Sheridan's personal log:
"Never say "Up yours!" to a Vorlon when he's holding you up against a wall by the power of his mind alone, and he's just called you impudent!"