Epic dragon fight last night

[Mixster]

That isn't Common Magic then, if you're using Amplify. There's no reason why Divine Magic shouldn't sometimes be more powerful than Sorcery, since Sorcery is usually the one on top. Also, the divine caster can only do that once per day, whereas the sorceror can do it dozens of times.

Let's agree to disagree on the fact that sorcery is better than divine magic. Yeah it sure is more versatile. But it surely isn't more powerful.

Spirit magicians eat both of them for lunch though.

I think it's a real shame that tricksters can't get Extension, cast with Laughter would be really funny. Go on. Laugh. Keep laughing, for ever. Yes, I will dedicate those two points of POW to make you laugh until the end of time. *Edit* Yes I would dedicate those two points of POW to make you laugh until the end of time, but alas, I cannot make you immortal as well.

Heh yeah, it's also pretty cool to bring about eternal night with extension + eclipse.


Just for the record: A pretty cool trick that costs 4 dedicated POW and requires a pact skill of 91+, is Absorption + Amplify (both extended). Cast a common magic spell at yourself for 1 MP, then it restores 10 of your MP. Now you are almost immune to magic, and you have almost unlimited magic points for common magic spells. Sadly you can't buff yourself, but you can still keep your party totally buffed and hit everybody with your magnitude 10 disruptions. And keep a magnitude 10 bladesharp weapon handy at all times. Why people keep insisting sorcery is better I still don't get.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Just for the record: A pretty cool trick that costs 4 dedicated POW and requires a pact skill of 91+, is Absorption + Amplify (both extended). Cast a common magic spell at yourself for 1 MP, then it restores 10 of your MP.

Hmmmmmm, no. Amplify boosts the effect of Common Magic, but doesn't create magic points. Even the most munchkinly lawyerly reading of the spells doesn't say that.

Now that I look closely, it doesn't actually say how many MPs are gained if Absorption sucks up a divine spell. You could infer that the MPs used to cast a Common Magic or Sorcery spell are absorbed directly, but Divine Magic doesn't cost MPs.

What about multiple targets all absorbing Sorcery? That could - according to a munchkinly lawyerly reading - be used to recharge the MP reserves of a group of priests with Absorption, though, a Magnitude 1 spell cast against 10 targets would give them all 2 MP each.

 

[Dan True]

Hmmmmmm, no. Amplify boosts the effect of Common Magic, but doesn't create magic points. Even the most munchkinly lawyerly reading of the spells doesn't say that.

Well, I would never rule that it could work - but RAW I understood it that way too. However, when I read Absorption again I see that it actually never says that 1 Magnitude = 1 MP.. It actually doesn't say anything more than it converts the magic into magic points.

- Dan

 

[DamonJynx]

Hmmm. This thread is very informative. I'm glad I GM Elric!

One of the reasons I prefer the S&S settings is that I feel magic kind of takes control in the high fantasy worlds. This thread confirms the core Runequest magic systems are no different to those from D&D, which is one of the main reasons I became disillusioned with V3.x, in this respect.

IMO stacking magical effects can be overpowering: enhancing a weapon, should not allow the use of enhanced ammunition, the higher magnitude effect should cancel out lower ones. Now I haven't read comprehensively, nor do I intend in the near future to delve into, the Runequest core magic systems so my opinions maybe ill informed. I just feel it leads to the kind of min-maxing-power-gaming situations that annoyed me in D&D. Well that's the impression I get from this thread and others discussing the core magic systems, anyway.

But it sounds like the players had a blast and were very creative which is, after all the whole point. But personally, I'll stick to low magic worlds thanks.

 

[Deleriad]

I must admit that I'm no fan of magic effects stacking, especially to the extent that they overshadow the actual effect. However one good thing about RQII is that damage blocking is a function of weapon size. So if you have an arrow doing 10 points of extra damage it still doesn't burst through a shield parry. (That leads to different strangenesses however...)

In previous RQ the extra damage would overwhelm the parry protection but not any more. Damage stacking is then less of an issue than it used to be.

In general sorcery is quite good for not stacking. Damage Enhancement and Damage Resistance work independently. If it were 1976 and I was writing RQ for the first time, I think I would try and make magic work more like that.

 

[Mixster]

Just for the record: A pretty cool trick that costs 4 dedicated POW and requires a pact skill of 91+, is Absorption + Amplify (both extended). Cast a common magic spell at yourself for 1 MP, then it restores 10 of your MP.

Hmmmmmm, no. Amplify boosts the effect of Common Magic, but doesn't create magic points. Even the most munchkinly lawyerly reading of the spells doesn't say that.

Now that I look closely, it doesn't actually say how many MPs are gained if Absorption sucks up a divine spell. You could infer that the MPs used to cast a Common Magic or Sorcery spell are absorbed directly, but Divine Magic doesn't cost MPs.

What about multiple targets all absorbing Sorcery? That could - according to a munchkinly lawyerly reading - be used to recharge the MP reserves of a group of priests with Absorption, though, a Magnitude 1 spell cast against 10 targets would give them all 2 MP each.

Actually you are right, absorption doesn't state how it makes them into magic points, I thought it was magnitude. But the spell doesn't specify.

Through on the sorcery thing. By RAW you can recharge if both of you have it, but sorcerers can recharge through the Tap + Restore combo anyway, so it's only useful if you don't want those two spells (Which I can understand).

IMO stacking magical effects can be overpowering: enhancing a weapon, should not allow the use of enhanced ammunition, the higher magnitude effect should cancel out lower ones. Now I haven't read comprehensively, nor do I intend in the near future to delve into, the Runequest core magic systems so my opinions maybe ill informed. I just feel it leads to the kind of min-maxing-power-gaming situations that annoyed me in D&D. Well that's the impression I get from this thread and others discussing the core magic systems, anyway.

I totally agree with you here, which is why all the recharge methods are probably TO, they would probably be game-breaking.

 

[Vortigern]

Hmmm. This thread is very informative. I'm glad I GM Elric!

One of the reasons I prefer the S&S settings is that I feel magic kind of takes control in the high fantasy worlds. This thread confirms the core Runequest magic systems are no different to those from D&D, which is one of the main reasons I became disillusioned with V3.x, in this respect.

IMO stacking magical effects can be overpowering: enhancing a weapon, should not allow the use of enhanced ammunition, the higher magnitude effect should cancel out lower ones. Now I haven't read comprehensively, nor do I intend in the near future to delve into, the Runequest core magic systems so my opinions maybe ill informed. I just feel it leads to the kind of min-maxing-power-gaming situations that annoyed me in D&D. Well that's the impression I get from this thread and others discussing the core magic systems, anyway.

But it sounds like the players had a blast and were very creative which is, after all the whole point. But personally, I'll stick to low magic worlds thanks.

In general, I quite agree. Though I like the mental exercise of trying to comprehend the rules min/maxing as well. But I prefer Swords & Sorcery settings that are more low-key with the magick, making it more difficult to use, but... scary/spooky and potent when it can properly be brought to bear on a problem.

The only exception would be I suppose my particular fondness for Ars Magica.

 

[Jujitsudave]

I agree. I'm not very fond of the Sorcery RAW and seek to build an Ars inspired redo of sorcery. I have it all in my head and in scattered notes, I just need some time, some cafe Cubano, and a little more motivation to write and I'll put it together. I'd like to have it by the time Ultor starts Impale.