Draw up its stats. Please

[JMISBEST]

Hello.

A female friend, not girl-friend, plans to use Darokyn from Pirates Of Drinax in A Part-Pirate and Part-Naval Campaign that is based on both Pirates Of Drinax Adventure 6's 2 groups and Darokyn's flight from The Imperium and rise to become The Greatest living pirate.

But she wants me to ask you to draw up the 2nd edition stats of the ship of Darokyn's Archenemy, I don't have a clue and she worries that if she asks her players will find out and it will spoil the suprise. Please help

It is a prototype 4,500 ton version of The 2,000 ton escort carrier. It has several much smaller then normal prototype systems and fittings, the knowledge of how to make them being lost to a terrorist attack ochestrated by a allance of The Ine Givar and Darokyn. It has Hull 80, Structure 80, 16 points of Crystaliron Armour, has fuel for 1 Jump 1 and 2 and a half weeks of operations, Its assorted turrets and bays mount 50 Beam Lasers, 20 Pulse Lasers, 10 Particle Beams, 3 Meson Guns and 2 Fusion Bays, it has 1-42 ton medical room, 1-42 ton recreational room and 176 tons of cargo space. Its fighter bay and 1 250 ton Launch Tube hold 18 10 ton, 6 20 ton and 4 30 ton fighters and 26 tons for upkeep, maintenance and repair work and its 88 double stateroome hold 30 pilots, 24 maintenance personnel and 18 flight support crew for the craft and 45 gunners, 26 marines, 9 engineers, 6 pilots, 6 medics, 6 navigators, 4 officers, 1 1st officer and 1 captain

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

Considering how generally unhelpful people are around here, you might want to try posting this on the Traveller Subreddit as well. They regularly do ship contests there.

 

[FallingPhoenix]

Considering how generally unhelpful people are around here, you might want to try posting this on the Traveller Subreddit as well. They regularly do ship contests there.

I've gotten lots of help around here, actually! I find the majority of those I interact with on this board to be quite polite and helpful.

 

[PsiTraveller]

I'll take a swing at it. I have a whole pile of questions first for a 2nd edition conversion.

What book are you getting the 2000 ton escort carrier from? (book and page number would be good). I can use that to get an idea of shape and then ramp it up on steroids.
1) What Tech Level are you using for the ship? If you want smaller than average fittings you will be using the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft (Chapter Four). This will let you take smaller component sizes but you need a Tech Level to know how many advantages you can get. I am leaning towards a TL of 15 for the example to show a prototype high tech ship which was stolen and is full of really advanced goodies. It also makes it easier to design a ship, and you get a bonus for combat because you are so High Tech.

2) You cannot have 16 points of Crystaliron armour, max is 13 points (pg 10 of Highguard)
If you have higher tech, do you want Higher armour type? Bonded Superdense gives a max armour of TL. The minimum TL for Bonded Superdense is 14. Molecular Bonded is TL 16 and can give protection up to TL level. So picking a TL for the ship is important

3) Particle beams are now Barbette ( 5 tons) each (pg 27 of the March preview High Guard). BUT in Chapter 8 you have High Technology which offers Particle Beams as a turret option again. So do you want the Particle Beams turret based or barbette based?
How many Particle Beams will you allow per turret. First edition had multiple PB's per turret, now it seems one per turret may be the intended number.

3) What is the Tech level of the ship? Power Plant energy production has Tl 12 giving 15 power points per ton of plant and TL 15 gives 20 power points per ton. You have a lot of weapons listed. Power is going to be a factor.

4) Fuel consumption has changed for Power Plants. 4 weeks of fuel uses very little fuel overall. 10 percent of Power Plant size gives fuel for 4 weeks. I will be giving 4 weeks of fuel, plus some storage for the small craft.

5) Weapon Hardpoints: a 4500 ton ship has 45 Hardpoints. Turrets use up a single hardpoint, as do Barbettes. Small and Medium Bays use 1 Hardpoint and Large Bays use 5 Hardpoints. You can pack in the lasers into triple turrets (Quad turrets if you go High Technology). You have to pick what sort of array you want

6) Meson Guns are now spinal mount only, UNLESS you go High Technology and make them Bay weapons. So again you have to pick what you want to do. The smallest spinal meson is 7500 tons, so you will have to go High Technology if you want Meson Weapons in Bays.

7) You have no Point Defense mentions, Screens or Nuclear Dampers. No Sandcasters are mentioned either as a defense against lasers and boarding parties.

8) You did not mention Countermeasure, Electronics, Bridge size, Hull enhancements like radiation shielding.

9) No missiles? There are a lot of missile builds that swamp opposing ships.

10) Launch Tubes and Hangar space. Each ship now needs full hangar space to be loaded into the Launch Tube. There will need to be a lot of math to sort this mess out, and it is 2:30 in the morning, so I will not be doing it right now. If the space needed proves to be problematic, which ships get cut?

11) Computer size and will you be using any virtual crew?
That's all I can think of for right now. Let me know the answers and I can fiddle something together.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Considering how generally unhelpful people are around here, you might want to try posting this on the Traveller Subreddit as well. They regularly do ship contests there.

Someone is fishing for members.

But she wants me to ask you to draw up the 2nd edition stats of the ship of Darokyn's Archenemy, I don't have a clue and she worries that if she asks her players will find out and it will spoil the suprise. Please help

I can do some artwork of the ship if you have some basic sketches already for it.

 

[mancerbear]

I can do some artwork of the ship if you have some basic sketches already for it.

I'd love to learn how to do ship art like you do, Shawn.

 

[AndrewW]

How many Particle Beams will you allow per turret. First edition had multiple PB's per turret, now it seems one per turret may be the intended number.

The High Guard errata limited particle beams to one per turret (but had to be installed in a triple turret).

10) Launch Tubes and Hangar space. Each ship now needs full hangar space to be loaded into the Launch Tube. There will need to be a lot of math to sort this mess out, and it is 2:30 in the morning, so I will not be doing it right now. If the space needed proves to be problematic, which ships get cut?

In addition, each craft carried on the ship that will use the launch tube must have a docking space or full hangar
(using the costs and tonnage on page 47).

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I can do some artwork of the ship if you have some basic sketches already for it.

I'd love to learn how to do ship art like you do, Shawn.

If you are not familiar with 3D modeling yet, you can try wings3D at http://www.wings3d.com And if you find it's your cup of tea, I can point you to commercial modeling apps that improve on the modeling techniques you discover that you prefer using.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Ok, Here is a first attempt. I think the crew needs to be reworked

Tech Level 15 Prototype ship
Hull 4500 Tons: Immune to Criticals from Turrets and Barbettes
Radiation Shielding:
13 Points CrystalIron armour: 731 Tons
Jump 1 Engine: Advanced Tech reduced size: 105.75 tons
M-Drive Thrust 3: Advanced Tech reduced size: 121.5 Tons
Power Plant: TL 15: 140 Tons: 2800 Power Produced
Fuel: 14 tons 4 weeks use
450 Tons: Jump 1
50 Tons: Small Craft fuel
Bridge 60 Tons Holographic Controls
Computer TL 12 Core 70
Sensors: Advanced TL 15
Enhanced Signal Processing
Weapons: 17 Triple Beam Laser Turrets: 17 Tons
51 Beam Lasers
7 Triple Pulse Laser Turrets: 7 Tons
21 Pulse Lasers
10 Particle Beam Turrets: 10 Tons
10 Particle Beams
3 Small Meson Bays: 150 Tons
2 Small Fusion Bays: 100 Tons
44 Weapons Crew Needed

Systems: Ships Locker
Fuel Scoops
25 Fuel Processors: 25 Tons
11 Armouries: 11 Tons
10 Libraries: 40 Tons
15 Briefing Rooms: 60 Tons
11 Medical bays: 44 Tons

launch Tube: 300 Tons
Full Hangars: 4 X 30 Ton Fighters: 240 Tons
Full Hangars: 6 X 20 Tons Fighters: 240 Tons
Full Hangars: 18 X 10 Ton Fighters: 360 Tons
5 Workshops: 30 Tons
Gaming Space: 42 Tons
Full Hangar: Modular Cutter: 100 Tons
Rentry Capsules: 100 Tons
30 Pilot Training Rooms: 60 Tons
26 Marine Training Rooms: 52 Tons
Repair Drones: 45 Tons
50 Low Berths: 25 Tons
88 Double Staterooms: 352 Tons
Common Area: 88 Tons
Cargo Area: 180 Tons

Total Tonnage so far: 4357
Total Cost: 2164 MCr

Core 70 computer for Fire Control and Virtual Crew and any other software needs
The Modular Cutter lets the crew leave the ship or have Marines use it to board an enemy if need be. It could also be used to recover damaged spacecraft.

Large briefing tonnage is to allow the 30 combat pilots to be briefed together, as well as the tonnage devoted to sim training, and marine training.

The medical bay is as per size request. I would add in the cost of several Autodocs. 50 lowberth lets a third of the crew get hurt and put on ice to save later.

Remaining tonnage could be used for Point Defense and Screens. A Docking Arm to grab damaged fighters could be good, a jump net, tow cable are also ideas.

Hope this helps.

I added the Modular Cutter to let the Crew move cargo and

 

[AndrewW]

Weapons: 17 Triple Beam Laser Turrets: 17 Tons
51 Beam Lasers
7 Triple Pulse Laser Turrets: 7 Tons
21 Pulse Lasers
10 Particle Beam Turrets: 10 Tons
10 Particle Beams
3 Small Meson Bays: 150 Tons
2 Small Fusion Bays: 100 Tons
44 Weapons Crew Needed

With military ships it's two per turret/bay/barbette/screens so that is 78 gunners per the normal requirement.

Full Hangars: 4 X 30 Ton Fighters: 240 Tons
Full Hangars: 6 X 20 Tons Fighters: 240 Tons
Full Hangars: 18 X 10 Ton Fighters: 360 Tons

Note you can also use docking spaces, reducing the tonnage needed. Maybe add a few full hangars to support maintenance.

Large briefing tonnage is to allow the 30 combat pilots to be briefed together, as well as the tonnage devoted to sim training, and marine training.

30 pilots and 28 fighters? (Extra pilots wouldn't need to be briefed on the mission). Older High Guard was 1 briefing room per 20 bomber/fighter crew.

The medical bay is as per size request. I would add in the cost of several Autodocs. 50 lowberth lets a third of the crew get hurt and put on ice to save later.

I've been using one medical bay per medic (1 per 120 crew/passengers) but there's no specific requirement.

A Docking Arm to grab damaged fighters could be good, a jump net, tow cable are also ideas.

Would need more then one, even a heavy grappling arm by itself can only handle up to 10 tons.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

Someone is fishing for members.

Hardly; they’re just better people.

I can do some artwork of the ship if you have some basic sketches already for it.

You can trust Shawn to give you a ship design that violates all modern expectations of what a Starship would be, to the point of it being incomprehensible and unplayable nonsense. If that’s what you want out of a ship design, by all means, go for it.

 

[PsiTraveller]

AndrewW: I used the Full Hangar for each ship because they need to be able to use the Launch Tube: Page 48

A launch tube consumes an amount of tonnage equal to ten times the size of the largest craft it must launch. In addition, each craft carried on the ship that will use the launch tube must have a full hangar (using the costs and tonnage on page XX).

Gunners: Yup, need more staterooms, I wrote at the bottom I thought the crew needed to be reworked. I think there are too many medics and not enough Gunners. The number of engineers needs to be checked because I think the tonnage on the fighters will needed to be calculated to have flight engineers to maintain the fighters.

Briefing rooms I guessed at, I was trying to figure out how many people can sit down in a Top Gun like briefing room. Then I figured they all may need a computer terminal in front of them so I made the room bigger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p890hIa1w9k

I put in 10 Libraries to have room for a large number of crew to be studying, and maybe as a spillover area for tactical briefings.

Each medical Bay allows for 5 patients to be treated. So if there is a large injury event, like combat can create you need enough space to treat the injured. 11 Bays allows for 55 patients, which I figured would be a worst case scenario and have patients being prepped for low berth, hence the 50 low berths. Maybe that is too much and I can save some space, even 15 crew injured at one time is 8.5 percent which is pretty bad. Any space savings will go to more staterooms for the additional crew.


Docking Arm: The I probably need to add in a maintenance tug with a tow cable and hangar to go and retrieve damaged ships and crew. Or have a module for salvage that goes into the modular cutter, and docking space for the modules.
A fuel module docking space would allow 30 tons to be skimmed by the modular cutter. This could be used to slowly fill up the ship if the carrier was not able to get to a gas giant. This would take a long time at 30 tons a trip. A fuel module would be able to easily keep the fighters supplied with fuel.

I couldn't sleep, so posted it at 4:19 a.m. For a first attempt with a sleep deprived brain I thought it was not a bad attempt. It gives the GM something to use.

 

[AndrewW]

A launch tube consumes an amount of tonnage equal to ten times the size of the largest craft it must launch. In addition, each craft carried on the ship that will use the launch tube must have a full hangar (using the costs and tonnage on page XX).

What I quoted above for launch tubes was directly from a newer version of the High Guard PDF then in the playtest version, either docking space or full hangars can be used with a launch tube.

Each medical Bay allows for 5 patients to be treated. So if there is a large injury event, like combat can create you need enough space to treat the injured. 11 Bays allows for 55 patients, which I figured would be a worst case scenario and have patients being prepped for low berth, hence the 50 low berths.

Just saying what I've been doing, which is one medical bay per medic, will still need a medic to treat the injured, or use an autodoc.

 

[middenface]

I can do some artwork of the ship if you have some basic sketches already for it.

I'd love to learn how to do ship art like you do, Shawn.

If you are not familiar with 3D modeling yet, you can try wings3D at http://www.wings3d.com And if you find it's your cup of tea, I can point you to commercial modeling apps that improve on the modeling techniques you discover that you prefer using.

You could also try Sketchup, its free and very easy.. Just look at my stuff

Ok lots of post work in PS there...

 

[mancerbear]

I love your work, middenface. I don't have Photoshop (anymore), but being able to design ships like you do would make me a very happy man.

 

[FallingPhoenix]

Someone is fishing for members.

Hardly; they’re just better people.

I can do some artwork of the ship if you have some basic sketches already for it.

You can trust Shawn to give you a ship design that violates all modern expectations of what a Starship would be, to the point of it being incomprehensible and unplayable nonsense. If that’s what you want out of a ship design, by all means, go for it.

Okay, Tenacious, sharing your opinion is one thing. Tearing down other people because they do things differently than you is another. Please continue doing the first and stop doing the second. The easiest way I can think of to accomplish this is making sure you're offering constructive criticism and not just telling someone how awful you think something is.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

Each medical Bay allows for 5 patients to be treated. So if there is a large injury event, like combat can create you need enough space to treat the injured. 11 Bays allows for 55 patients, which I figured would be a worst case scenario and have patients being prepped for low berth, hence the 50 low berths.

Just saying what I've been doing, which is one medical bay per medic, will still need a medic to treat the injured, or use an autodoc.

Put the Medical Bay adjacent to the Galley, as is typically done in modern warships. When they’re wounded in bulk like that, they’re taken to the Galley, where the Medics will be standing by to do Triage.

Leave the Sick Ward closed off from the rest of the Medical Bay, though, so they’re not sharing the same air with the incoming wounded.

Okay, Tenacious, sharing your opinion is one thing. Tearing down other people because they do things differently than you is another. Please continue doing the first and stop doing the second. The easiest way I can think of to accomplish this is making sure you're offering constructive criticism and not just telling someone how awful you think something is.

Some people like incomprehensible unplayable nonsense... apparently, it makes them feel like an egotistical troll. Who am I to disagree with that?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Here's my try, based on what we have seen so far.

I assumed TL 15. I included Armour 16, as specified in the OP, even if the max should be 15.

TL 15        Hull 1 800                                  4 101,7          
                    Desired    ∆TL    Rat    #    dTon    Cost    Power    HardP    Crew    
Hull                                             4500              900      45        
Config  Streamlined      2             2                   270                
Hull strength Standard   2             2                            
Armour Bonded Superden  16            16          576      346                
Rad Shielding            1             1                   113                
EM Shielding             1             1           90      180                
Stealth                  1             1                   450                
Repair Drones            1             1           45        9                
                                            
JumpD      High Tech     1      3      1     1    131      294     450                4    Stealth
ManœuvreD  High Tech     3      3      3     1     95      284    1350                3    
PowerP     Standard                          1    158      316    3506                5    
    Emergency Power      1                   1     16       32                
                                            
Drop Tank Collar 550 dT  2                   2      4        2                
Drop Tanks                                            
Fuel, Jump               1             1     1    560                    
Fuel, Power              4             4     1     16                    
Fuel, Small Craft                                  50                    
Fuel Purification        24 h       24 h     1     28        1                
                                            
Bridge                   1                   1     60       23                
Holographic              1                   1               6                
Comp         CORE/100   20           100     1             130                
Backup Comp  m/35 fib    7            35     1              45              
                                            
Sensors    Advanced      9             4     1      5        5       6            
Array      Rapid Exten   9             2     1     10       21                
Extension Net            9             1     1     45       45                
SignalProc Enhanced      9             2     1      2        8       2            
Shallow Pen Suite        9             1    10      5        1            
Countermeasures Military 9             2     1     15       28       2            
                                            
Staterooms            100%           125   125    500       63                
Common Areas           20%           20%     1    100       10                
Escape Capsule           1                 250    125        5                
Briefing Room            5                   5     20        3                
Library                  2                   2      8        8                
Medical Bay 10% of crew  3                  11     44       22                
Workshop                 1                   1      6        1                
Armoury                  1                  13     13        3                
Marine Training Facility 5                   5     10        2      10            
Brig                    10                  10     40        3                
Low Berths              50            50     1     25        3       5            
Cargo                                             247                    
Cargo Crane              1                   1      4        4                
Cargo Scoop              1                   1      2        1                
UNREP                   10                  10     10        5                
                                            
                                            
Medium Bay          
Fusion    High Tech      2      3   TL15     2    180       48     160       2        4    Dam: 2DD
Small Bay                                            
Meson     Very Advanced  3      2   TL13     3    150      188      60       3        6    Dam: 8D
Turret                                            
Beam Laser  Very Adv    10      2   TL12    10     10       29     130      10       10    Dam: 1D+2
Pulse Laser Very Ad     10      2   TL11    10     10       48     130      10       10    Dam: 2D+4
Particle    Very Ad     10      2   TL13    10     10      160     250      10       10    Dam: 3D+6
                                            
Point Defence Type III  10      1           10    180      220     300      10        
                                            
Screen Meson Very Adv    5      3            5     40      125     150                5    
       Damper,High Tech  5      3            5     35       75      50                5    
                                            
Craft      10 dT        18                  18    198       50                       36    
           20 dT         6                   6    132       33                       12    
           30 dT         4                   4    132       33                        8    
Service bay                                        60       12                
Launch Tube              1                   1    300      150     300                2    
                                            
                                            
Docking Clamp  Type III  4                   4     40        8                
               Type IV   3                   3     60       12                
                                            
Jump Net              1100                         11        3                
Exterior Cargo Mount  1100                                   1                
Tow Cable                1                         45        0                
                                            
Software                                                   144                
Intellect/1                     10                           1                
Jump Control/1                   5                           0                
Evade/3                         25                           3                
Fire Control/5                  25                          10                
Advanced Fire Control/3         30                          18                                   
Launch Solution/0                                            
Point Defence/2                 15                          12                
Electronic Warfare/3            20                          24                
Broad Spectrum EW/1             12                          14                
Screen Optimiser/1              10                           5                                            
Battle System/3                 15                          36                
Virtual Crew/2                  15                          10                
Virtual Gunner/2                15                          10                
Anti-Hijack/3                   12                          14                
Auto-Repair/2                   20                          10                
                                            
                                            
                                            
                                            
Crew                   195                                    
    Command             18                                    
    Bridge              12                                    
        Pilot                  3
        Astrogator             1
        Sensor & EW            8
    Engineer            20    
        Engineer              11
        Maintenance            9
    Service              7    
        Admin                  4,5
        Medic                  1,605666667
        Steward                0,18
    Gunner              55    
    Flight              58    
    Troops              25

The fighters are carried in minimal Docking Spaces, but there is an extra 60 dT Full Hangar that can service a total of 30 dT of crafts at a time.

The ship is stealthed with basic stealth, emission absorption grid, and stealth jump drive. We don't want everyone in the system to know where we are.

The ship is streamlined so can skim fuel.

The ship can jump with 1100 dT external cargo, in either external cargo, jump net, carried ships (in docking clamps), or drop tanks. Thrust is reduced to 2 while carrying anything. The ship is unstreamlined while carrying anything. It has 4 Docking Clamps for small ships (100 - 300 dT) and 3 for medium ships (300 - 2000 dT). It can do 3 jumps if it carries 1100 dT fuel in external tanks. We have to be able to carry off the loot!

It has a towing cable to tow away a captured ship. It has a cargo scoop to scoop up objects from space. It has 10 dT UNREP equipment to refuel and rearm fighters.

The crew might be a bit big at 195 people. It has 18 extra staterooms and 10 brigs to accommodate extra crew and up to 120 prisoners.

The ship has a big computer and good sensors, sensor DM +6, ECM DM +10. Basically all software included in the price.

The ship has 5 bays, 30 triple turrets, and 10 Point Defence Batteries (you really need some missile defence in 2e). A token 5 Nuclear Dampers and 5 Meson Screens are included. The bays and turrets can easily be changed as desired.

 

[Tenacious-Techhunter]

7 docked ships at once seems like a bit much, particularly for a ship that skims its own fuel... also a big security hassle. 2 small and 1 medium might be more reasonable.

A few Manipulator Arms would be a good addition... two for the cargo scoop, and maybe two for each landing bay, for those Fighter Craft so damaged they need a little help getting in?

 

[PsiTraveller]

Where does it say docking space can be used with a launcher? The preview book I have has it as Full Hangar only. Am I behind in a release??

I like the Drop Tank and Jump Net and Docking Clamps. Combined with the extra engine tonnage you can move a lot of ship that way. Nice!

Was your intent to have the Carrier able to act as a fleet support vessel as well? With the 10 tons of Unrep you can empty your Cargo Hold in just over an hour. What is your thinking behind it? ( I'll be honest, if it is a good fleet logistics idea I will be putting it into all my future designs)