Drakh Raiders and campaigns

[victor romeo]

OK, in a campaign you are allowed to use fighters from a carrier or fleet carrier in battle without their carrier; you just pay the relevant number of points for the wings of auxillary craft. Now my question is can Drakh do this with the craft gained from Huge Hangars. Basically if my Campaign fleet consists of Motherships (assuming the model finally gets released) and Macu Carriers can I take the Raiders / Heavy Raiders seperately in low priority games.

 

[Sulfurdown]

The Drakh carried ships may be "launched as though they were fighters". They don't qualify for any Fighter conditions. Under the Carrier special campaign rules it states that they "may send its Fighters off with a fleet about to go into battle". I would say this rules that unless the ship has Fighter as a special trait, it can't be extracted and launched from a Carrier into a battle independently.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Under the spirit of the rules I'd argue that the Drakh should be allowed to use their carried Raiders independantly in campaign games.

 

[H]

Under the spirit of the rules I'd argue that the Drakh should be allowed to use their carried Raiders independantly in campaign games.

I would argue that it could make raiders very cheap, buy this already rather spiffy armageddon ship and get 12 raiders for free. what is it, 6 RR for a raider. so you get 72 points of raiders that are independant! eep! no thanks!! at least if they have to stay with the mo-ship, they have the problem of launching and getting into a fight that MUST be 1 arm point minimum (or equivalent)

 

[victor romeo]

Under the spirit of the rules I'd argue that the Drakh should be allowed to use their carried Raiders independantly in campaign games.

I tend to go with the line that the rules don't allow for it. However an expeditionary force made up of a Mothership escorted by carriers fits right in with the Drakh background.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

I think an official response is needed

 

[Admiral Phlop]

In a related subject, when you have a carrier or mo/ship in a battle, in a campaign and you lose some ships from either of the above ships do you have to buy their replacements or are they automatically replaced if the ships mentioned survive the battle?

 

[Greg Smith]

You have to buy replacements, like you have to buy lost fighters from ships that carry them. Unless you send your carrier/mo ship back to base.

 

[DrSeltsam]

After doing same rounds in our current campaign we have agreed to forbid Drakh in campaigns because the way they work is broken beyond any believe :roll:

A player with same degree of knowledge about the game will have no problems regarding RR & ship management and will have hard times to actually run out of ships !
Lost raiders can be transferred between ships like fighters and the now empty ship will be send back to the base for free re-fill.

The only positive point was that the Raiders do not have the Fighter trait and we concluded the "may send its Fighters off with a fleet about to go into battle" could not be used. If this is possible it would make the fleet in campaing games even more broken :roll:

 

[nekomata fuyu]

If it ever comes up in our group, I suspect the fairest way to house-rule it will be to treat the ships as fighters for the purpose of transfers and sending ships on missions, but also to house-rule that you don't get freebie raiders or fighters when you send a ship back to HQ.

 

[Admiral Phlop]

If you were to limit the Drakh the ability to send a ship back to home and replenish then you would have to limit all races to the same. They have to be away from the game for several turns. This is our first time with playing with the Drakh, so we will see how they work out. I could see the ability to send out the ships on the carrier or mo/ship on a mission with out the main ship being a problem. At the start of the campaign do you have the Drakh make the choice of what ships are on the mo/ship or do you allow the player to change from turn to turn. My thoughts would be to have the Drakh set what is stationed on board at the beginning as the fleet is moving into an area and contesting. What does everybody else think?

 

[Tzarevitch]

OK, in a campaign you are allowed to use fighters from a carrier or fleet carrier in battle without their carrier; you just pay the relevant number of points for the wings of auxillary craft. Now my question is can Drakh do this with the craft gained from Huge Hangars. Basically if my Campaign fleet consists of Motherships (assuming the model finally gets released) and Macu Carriers can I take the Raiders / Heavy Raiders seperately in low priority games.

I agree with Lord David. Yes they can operate independently, and here's why. The rule you are citing is simply not applicable to the drakh as their ships are NOT aux craft. They are ships with 2 special exceptions that cause them to mimic aux craft in specific instances and which are specifically stated:

1) Huge Hangar rules.
2) Free purchase with a Macu or an Amu.

That is it. No offense, but people are reading waaayyyy too much into this. They simply do not follow aux craft rules of any other sort unless stated that they do. Just because they can base on and launch from a larger ship does not mean that they have to, even if they came as part of a purchase of a larger ship. Don't attribute special aux craft rules or restrictions to them that the rules don't specify because they aren't aux craft.

If there IS such a campaign rule exception and someone can find it and quote it, then question resolved. I am guessing there isn't such a rule because no one has been able to quote it. In that case they behave like ships regardless of how they were purchased and follow ship rules in the campaign and they can be deployed however their player chooses.

I am not implying that there aren't unclear rules in this game (there most certainly are a few), but this doesn't seem to be one of them in my opinion. I am also not saying that there shouldn't be a rule againt unlimited deployment of drakh ships based off of a mothership type (although I don't see the harm in it), I am simply saying that there doesn't seem to be such a rule in the book.

Tzarevitch

 

[Burger]

If there IS such a campaign rule exception and someone can find it and quote it, then question resolved. I am guessing there isn't such a rule because no one has been able to quote it.

How about this one, under Huge Hangars:

"They are launched and can be taken back on board the carrier as if they were Fighters, though they can never start the battle deployed."

If they were to be fielded independently of their carrier, then they would count as beng "deployed". Therefore, this is not allowed.

 

[DrSeltsam]

If you were to limit the Drakh the ability to send a ship back to home and replenish then you would have to limit all races to the same. They have to be away from the game for several turns. This is our first time with playing with the Drakh, so we will see how they work out. I could see the ability to send out the ships on the carrier or mo/ship on a mission with out the main ship being a problem. At the start of the campaign do you have the Drakh make the choice of what ships are on the mo/ship or do you allow the player to change from turn to turn. My thoughts would be to have the Drakh set what is stationed on board at the beginning as the fleet is moving into an area and contesting. What does everybody else think?

Sorry but it is a big difference between free fighters and free ships :roll:

If the Drakh are intended to work this way you will have no need to spend RR on re-fitting and/or repair. You will just "cycle" your ships between HQ and your fleet list with some of your Carriers.

 

[Voronesh]

Actually "deployed" would mean that they are placed on the board along with their carrier. One could argue that they never start the battle deployed from their carrier if you just place them independently without its mothership.

Yes i know, its playing the rule and not the game. But thats what you get for one half sentence trying to rule mutiple possibilities.


And since fighters are often consiered ships nowadays (eg last ship on the board and other stuff) one could argue that Drakh radiers be treated the same as fighter flights.



^^

 

[H]

Actually "deployed" would mean that they are placed on the board along with their carrier. One could argue that they never start the battle deployed from their carrier if you just place them independently without its mothership.

Yes i know, its playing the rule and not the game. But thats what you get for one half sentence trying to rule mutiple possibilities.


And since fighters are often consiered ships nowadays (eg last ship on the board and other stuff) one could argue that Drakh radiers be treated the same as fighter flights.



^^

I think I'll house rule no independant re-deployment of mothership and carrier bourne raiders, unless sadi ship is destroyed!! i just think it gives way to much of an advantage. That said, I can e-mine the critters to oblivion!

 

[Burger]

And since fighters are often consiered ships nowadays (eg last ship on the board and other stuff) one could argue that Drakh radiers be treated the same as fighter flights.

That is like saying peas are green and beans are green, therefore peas are beans!

 

[DrSeltsam]

Actually "deployed" would mean that they are placed on the board along with their carrier. One could argue that they never start the battle deployed from their carrier if you just place them independently without its mothership.

Yes i know, its playing the rule and not the game. But thats what you get for one half sentence trying to rule mutiple possibilities.

And since fighters are often consiered ships nowadays (eg last ship on the board and other stuff) one could argue that Drakh radiers be treated the same as fighter flights.
^^

Yep - but reading and applying the rules this would lead to the following ...

# you can send the raiders to a battle without sending the Carrier/Mothership
# you can send a Carrier/Mothership home/to HQ to get a "free" re-fill

IMHO this is a reeaaallly huge form of "recycling" :roll:

Im not sure ... is the Fighter trait needed to be transferred between ships or is this handled with the Carrier trait ?

 

[katadder]

one thing to remember to really differentiate - ships can start with a fighter launched, but you cannot start with any of your raiders launched so they cannot be considered the same in any way.

 

[Spideredd]

In the campaign I'm playing in, we've already decided that the Drakh can't use raiders in this way.
We've also ruled against them being able to replace raiders in the same way that carriers can replace fighters. It makes the drakh far too gross.
I'm the drakh player, and I completly agree.
I could manage my fleet so that I would never need to buy a raider again, if I was allowed to do both, and that doen't make for fun playing.