[Dragon Warriors]Any common/popular shield houserules?

[Tathlum]

Shields kinda suck, and use up an extra roll for very rare benefit. Especially compared to the usefulness in real life. But ignoring realism in RPG's, there doesn't seem like much in game incentive to give up the higher armour piercing and damage of a two hander.

Do others feel this way? If so, are there any popular house rules? Adding 2 to defence perhaps?
How about the "splintered shields" house rule for basic D&D. As an added benefit your shield takes damage from a successful attack instead of you, but splinters into useless boards and splinters. So a one off lifesaver with a cool image on the side.

Anyone tried one?

 

[bulya]

Shields kinda suck, and use up an extra roll for very rare benefit. Especially compared to the usefulness in real life. But ignoring realism in RPG's, there doesn't seem like much in game incentive to give up the higher armour piercing and damage of a two hander.

Do others feel this way? If so, are there any popular house rules? Adding 2 to defence perhaps?
How about the "splintered shields" house rule for basic D&D. As an added benefit your shield takes damage from a successful attack instead of you, but splinters into useless boards and splinters. So a one off lifesaver with a cool image on the side.

Anyone tried one?

I've culled some from dragwars for you.

"Some other thought. I think shields should be an automatic 'main
gauche' in that it adds to DEFENCE rather than some unmodified roll
of d6. Sure the main gauche rules weren't made up until book 4.
But I think this would be a more accurate depiction of active
defence as opposed to passive (Armour)."

'Subsequently have different rules for shields in my own homebrew version of DW - shields provide additional AF if used successfully, and as all attacks use 'Damage-AF' to determine wounds shields can be used equally against weapon blows, missile attacks and blasting spells.'

'Using Shields in Melee
+1 Defence for Bucklers and small shields, +2 Defence Large Shields, Tower
Shields, Magical Defence adds to the plus (but magic was rarer for my games)
this plus counted for ALL given attacks.. so if you had 2 orcs, you'd divide
your defence, then add your shield plus to each attack, Made shields worthwhile.
BUT, Larger shields cost -1 Attack.

Expert Parry was split into two skills, since the idea that you block with a
shield, and parry with a sword, you could gain a +1 defence (expert Parry) when
using a sword, or lose the -1 attack penalty (Expert Block) when using shields.


Shields and Missile Weapons
As above for Defence, Bonus Skill for knights (quick Cover) further +1 defence
against missle weapons


Shields & Indirect Spells
As for Missle Weapons

Critical Hits & Shields
A shield should not have a chance to block a critical, it reduces the players
excitement, of Hey I got a '1' to .. oh but lets check for the bad guy's +3
shield..


Shield Variety
I had supposed that a player with 19 strength, could weild a Great Tower sheild,
that allowed a +3 Defence, -2 Attack.. but no-one ever used it.'

 

[Tathlum]

Thanks Bulya.
Do you have a favourite?

 

[bulya]

Thanks Bulya.
Do you have a favourite?

I just used the standard rules. *shrug*

 

[wazza]

How about...

Ignore Defense entirely. Instead, each round you can have a single attack and parry (weapon or shield). To parry all you have to do is roll an Attack with a value equal to or exceeding the attacking value of your opponent. I'd say a small shield adds on a +1 bonus to this roll whilst a large shield adds on a +2 (that's what they're designed for after all.)

I used this in an old AD&D campaign I ran years ago and it proved to be very popular and makes shields far more useful. I does seem odd that a shield can only block a blow 1-in-6 times.

I'd also say a Shield can be used offensively as well, perhaps doing damage as a cudgel (d3,3) but maybe with a -1 for small shields and a -2 for large.

Alternatively shields can just add onto a characters Defense value. I'd say 3 for a small shield and 5 for a large shield but offset this by reducing their Evasion score by an equal amount (shields are heavy and cumbersome.)

 

[wazza]

Or....

To reduce the probability of parrying too often use the Character's Defense value instead of Attack when parrying. So each round you have one attack using your Attack value and can Parry with either your weapon or Shield using your Defense value (with the recommended modifiers for the type of shield used as mentioned above.)

So to parry roll your Defense value as if you were attacking and try to match or exceed your opponents Attacking value. This makes Defense more dynamic rather than a static value and allows the Player to roll to avoid taking damage something I feel players like to do.

Why not allow a Knight or Barbarian to substitute Defense for Evasion when using a shield to avoid the effects of certain spells such as Dragon's Breath? It makes sense that a shield could block such an attack.

Btw shields are tough so they can take a severe before being damaged/destroyed. I'd say a shield would last an entire campaign before needing to be replaced.

 

[wazza]

Also to simplfy combat keep the current rules for monsters/NPC's. Only players and perhaps major NPC's should be allowed to parry using their Defense score, purely to keep combat fast and fluid whilst allowing players the opportunity to avoid damage.

 

[Cowboy]

I prefer to just let knights use the Expert Parry benefit by default and let the shield defend on a 1-3 on a d10 if they actually take the Expert Parry skill.

This puts a knight with a sword and shield on a roughly even footing against a two-handed weapon wielding barbarian with the same level and the same stats.

Of course, if you only give Knights this benefit, shields will still suck for everyone else.

 

[wimlach]

Here's some alternate rules I posted on the Dragwars mailing list from a while back:

Using Shields in Melee
If an attacker rolls EXACTLY the highest required roll to hit a defender with a shield, then the defender blocks the blow with the shield.
No extra roll, easy to calculate, and also takes into account the Attack & Defence of the combatants, making shields more advantageous the higher your defence is compared to your opponents attack score.

Taking an example from the Dragon Warriors rulebook:
Balin (Attack 14, Defence 9), armed with sword and shield, takes on two orcs (Attack 11, Defence 5)
He puts a defence of 5 against one orc. This orc needs a 6 or less to hit Balin, and if the orc rolls exactly a 6, Balin will have managed to block the blow on his shield. A roll of 5 or less will hit Balin as normal.
The remaining 4 points of defence is put against the second orc. This orc needs a roll of 7 or less to hit, with a 7 actually hitting Balins shield rather than his body.

If only one orc was attacking Balin, then the Shield would be even more useful - the Orc could only hit Balin by rolling a 1 or a 2 to hit, and that 2 would in fact hit Balins Shield.

Critical hits (rolling a 1) cannot be blocked by a shield.

Note this is the equivalent of gaining a +1 to Defence against each attacker when using a shield, but with the advantage of knowing exactly when the shield was used.


Using Shields against Missiles
What about using a shield against missile weapons or direct spells? Use the same rules as above (assuming the defender is actively defending with their shield), but with the addition that the missile/spell will hit the shield if the attack/speed roll hits by only 2 points or less. So if an archer normally requires a 12 or less to hit our knight, his arrow will strike the knights shield on the roll of a 10, 11 or 12. Just like the warlock 'Arrow Cutting' skill, this only applies if the defender is aware of his attacker - you don't get the shield bonus against an unseen opponent.


Shield Endurance (Optional)
There are three grades of Shield:

Light - Leather or Woven. This is an inexpensive shield type often used by primitive or poor cultures.
Common - Wooden core, canvas or leather skin, with perhaps a metal rim and/or boss. This is the most common type of shield, and is normally round, square or kite shaped.
Buckler - All metal, but much smaller than a normal shield so can only be used in melee combat - it offers no protection from missile or area-effect attacks.

Each has an Endurance value. Add any magical bonus to this value:

Light - 10
Common - 12
Buckler- 16

When a shield blocks a blow, have the opponent roll the armour bypass die and add the weapons damage. If this exceeds the shield endurance value, it is rendered unusable. For attacks with no armour bypass, simply use the rolled damage. In the case of a critical hit, assume the maximum roll for armour bypass.

Magical shields can only be harmed by magical weapons or attacks from magical creatures/sources.


Expert Parry
A character with the Expert Parry skill will block blows if the attacker makes the hit roll by a single point or less (in effect gaining +2 Defence against opponents). E.g. if a 7 or less is normally required to hit the shield bearer, a roll of 6 or 7 will in fact strike the shield.

Expert parry does not confer any advantage when defending against missile or spell attacks.

In addition, the character may add +2 to the endurance values of shields (if this rule is used), as they are proficient in deflecting blows, thus lessening the impact on the shield itself.

 

[wimlach]

Actually, just thought of another very simple alternative that takes into account the relative skill of attacker and defender:

Using a Shield
To successfully block a blow with your shield, roll less than the opponents hit roll on a D20. This applies to both melee and missile attacks.

E.g. If your opponent rolls a 5 to hit (and is successful), you must roll less than 5 on a D20 to block the blow.

Note that critical hits cannot be blocked, as it is impossible to roll less than 1.

Blocking Indirect Spells
In the same fashion as blocking a normal attack, the defender may catch a spell blast on their shield by rolling less than the value of the speed vs evasion roll. However, this can only be attempted in place of dodging, so the defenders evasion is considered 0.

Expert Parry
Characters with the skill 'Expert Parry' may block a blow by rolling less than or equal to the opponents hit roll on a d20. Characters with this skill can block critical hits in this way (if they also roll a 1 for their block).

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Not playtested, but I was thinking in terms of the "active defence" remark above, and it struck me that a shield should be something you can actually physically use. One way to model this under DW rules without bending things too much would be almost like an inverse berserk - sacrifice some Attack to gain Defence.

Something like 2 attack gives 1 extra defence is an option open to all characters, possession of a shield or other parrying weapon would make it 1 for 1. Modify to suit your taste for skills of the mighty, and maybe Knights could get some extra goodies from it too.

I'll leave further implementation details to anyone who wants to pick up on it.

 

[Cowboy]

Shields block damage on 1-2 on a d10 by default and on 1-3 with the expert parry skill.
This way sword'n'board becomes about as good as using a two-handed weapon by default and for someone with expert parry it becomes better.
(In most situations - if fighting something with an outrageously high AF that you can't hope to penetrate with your Sword's AB, the two-hander is still clearly better)

As it is, knights are generally better off discarding their shield for a two-handed weapon at their earliest opportunity.