Don't shoot him, you'll just make him angry...

[ShopKeepJon]

A player in our local campaign had a ship using the "Close Blast Doors and Activate Defense Grid!" special action. While doing so, the ship took a no special actions crit. Later that same turn he activated this ship and claimed that, since it was no longer using any special action, he could fire all of the ships weapons without restriction.:shock:

Now I had always assumed that any restriction imposed by using a special action would last until the end of the turn, but we can't find anywhere in the rules that actually says that...

This just feels terribly wrong. Is this the way that it is supposed to work or are we missing something?

ShopKeepJon

 

[BADGERCLAW]

I completely agree with you.

It is supposed to last until the end of the turn. just because someone else is not shooting at you no more doesn't mean the special action stops. Most special actions have down side to them. Just because it's not useful anymore doesn't mean you stop doing it.
I do not know where you can find in the rulebook that would state that.
But I believe others will soon chime in and will be able to direct you to the right passage.

This is the only quote that I can find in the book so far

When a ship is nominated to move, a player can also choose to perform a Special Action. Some of these are automatic,
while some require a Crew Quality check for success. Each ship may only attempt one Special Action in every turn, though
any number of ships may attempt them every turn. A Special Action must be chosen and attempted before the ship begins
to move.

this is on page 13

bc

 

[Lokai]

while the rules don't specify that you are no longer imposed by the restrictions of a special action i would still consider them restricted by the order they HAD attempted as it just seems silly/beardy to play it otherwise.

only support i could point to is the special action Run Silent which if you fail the roll you still suffer the penalty but arn't getting the benefit of the action you attempted.

basicly your crew were attempting to close bulkheads and activate defensive grid and it was working for a while until the crew was disrupted by a lucky shot...

 

[Taran]

You know, I thought the SAs declared and succeeded before the No SA Crit was made would still be in effect till the end of the turn. No SAs just seemed to mean to me that they can't declare any more...

 

[ShopKeepJon]

You know, I thought the SAs declared and succeeded before the No SA Crit was made would still be in effect till the end of the turn. No SAs just seemed to mean to me that they can't declare any more...

No, according to the rulebook (page 13), they stop functioning immediately after the crit:

If a ship is restricted from performing Special Actions (such as from some critical hits), then it will also immediately lose any Special Actions that it is currently performing, losing all benefits in the process.

Unfortunately, this rule says that they lose the Special Actions rather than just the benefits of them...

shopKeepJon

 

[Lokai]

well guess we need some official response....but i'd still follow the SA's restrictions as thats just very odd....

 

[ShopKeepJon]

basicly your crew were attempting to close bulkheads and activate defensive grid and it was working for a while until the crew was disrupted by a lucky shot...

This is how I've alway viewed it, but I'm no longer sure that this is what the rules actually say.

When I play, I will probably continue to keep the restrictions until the end of the turn just because it feels right.
If anyone can find a written rule that supports this I would greatly appreciate it!

ShopKeepJon

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Arrggh! You respond too quickly! Must type faster!...

well guess we need some official response....but i'd still follow the SA's restrictions as thats just very odd....

Yep! That's my thinking exactly!

ShopKeepJon

 

[Harry Lonsdale]

From a similar thread

So if I "Concentrate All Firepower!" and fail the check, do I still have to shoot at the ship I selected exclusivly?

No. There are no restrictions. You have failed that SA, so you are in no way on it. Similarly, if your ship takes a 'No Special Actions' critical before it fires, it will lose the restriction.

Edit: fixed link

 

[Lokai]

link dosn't work.......not sure that you can link to threads on this forum

and while that may be the case still seems SO wrong. they'll have to put that in a FAQ/erratta but anywho it is what it is night guys gotta be up early in the mornin

 

[Green_Knight]

From the rules side, it is completly ok what he did.

But i'm in for a correction of the rules here, so that
restrictions last for the remainder of the turn.

 

[madpax]

On the other hand, if you fail a 'run silent' check, you don't benefit from it but suffer its restriction nonetheless.

Marc

 

[Brain Snaffler]

I think the blast doors and defence grid is a tricky action to justify, because thinking logically, once the blast doors are closed, and the defence grid activated, they should be in effect until the commander declares they are open.

After all, what's the point of a blast door if you have to keep your finger on a button all the time or it will fly open again!!!

If a rules change was being considered, I would suggest once it's activated, it's in effect forever until the commander opens them again - if a no SA's crit is gained, then they should loose the benefit of the action, but still only have the one weapon to fire.

Doubt if this will ever be implemented though because keeping track can get very complicated and the game runs very smoothly. It falls down to simplification of the rules, and to remain fair, I would say that the action should stand to the end of the turn.

 

[Right Hand of God]

The whole rule needs some clarification. It is the trouble with a simple rules system that has been cut downtomake it readable and fast, occasionally thngs get missed.

There are special actions that should be allowed to continue until the end of the turn CBDAADG if one of these. There are others that should be lost straight away, CAF for example.

All the SAs need to be gone through and a result applied on a what if SAs are lost mid turn basis.

For the moment I would say what your player did in firing all weapons was completely within the rules. If CAF is lost a player can target as many ships as he likes. The SA is not in effect.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I've never liked the springy blast doors explanation, and I get the feeling that the biggest problem with CBLAADG is that the name itself is misleading, probably because they decided to try and nab a phrase out of the show to represent the rule. Instead I see it representing the ship's crew actively trying to minimise damage at the expense of firing at the enemy quite so much, and if you kill enough crew or destroy the command structure, the crew just stop being effective at trying to stop the damage.

On the subject of failed/lost special actions though, I do feel that it would be better if each one had a list of effects just for attempting it, and then the effects if successful.

 

[Burger]

It should be called "Close blast doors and fasten seat belts", since it now protects against crew loss also.

 

[Harry Lonsdale]

link dosn't work.......not sure that you can link to threads on this forum

It's fixed, or try this

 

[katadder]

your player played it correctly. he lost the benefit and also lost the downside if he hadnt fired already.
same applies with CAF. about the worst thing to get on a CAFed ship is the no SA crit, esepcially if you surrounded a target with something hes not CAFed on then suddenly he can fire all guns.

 

[H]

Alas, logical or no, once you loose special actions, you also loose the restrictions it may have imposed, so he was spot on with what he did i'm afraid.

 

[jimmor]

Well what if you had already benefited from the SA? You had CBD and it was third ship firing at you that caused critic? What if you had already fired weapons with restrictions applying? Making it work like you suggest will cause a considereble chaos. Perheaps it should be stated 'loose all benefits from SA' rather then 'no SA'...