Dilgar Info for Newbie

[jahatch28]

So, my buddy up in Boston picked up some Narn and played a small demo with one of the Mongoose demo-guys as well. We (my friend up in boston and I) used to play Battlefleet Gothic and really enjoyed the game compared to most GW games.

Anyway, I picked up that 10 page "intro to Call to Arms" as well as bought a Dilgar Omelos to put together and check out the models.

I liked the booklet and the ship so starting looking more into the game - since no one up in at the LGS in boston plays Dilgar, I figure that's a safe way to go... and after getting the basic fleet list from folks up there, I like the idea of the 2 types of ships (crusier with weak hull but good speed and really, really slow assault ships with solid armor)....

So, my questions are:
what are good first purchases for a new player who'll be playing mostly other new players (ie I probably don't need 2 dreadnoughts to start)?

What's a good ratio of crusiers to assault ships for the Dilgar?

And finally, as a new player, anyone have any tips/guides/things to watch out for that a newbie should know?

(I've got over a decade of gaming experience with a dozen different miniature wargames so I'm looking for Call to Arms related hints and not a breakdown of "how not to superglue your eyelids closed for beginners" type stuff =p - thanx!)

jahatch28

 

[blackphoenix]

Typically most Dilgar players I know skip the Rohric, Wahant, Katrick, and generally the Garsoch too.

The ships tend to be too slow to be of much use. The Tikrit, Targrath, and Omelos are the ships you really want to focus on. Maybe the Ochlavita in more limited numbers.

As for what to buy, as always the fleet box is a great value and good place to start.


If you're picking things up individually and shooting for a 5pt raid fleet something like this shouldn't be too bad to start with.

1x Tikrit
2x Targrath
2x Omelos

Not exactly the "best" 5pt raid, but it will give you several ships to work with. More ideally would be to drop the Tikrit in favor of more Targraths.

Honestly the Targrath is "the" ship of your fleet. When in doubt, get more of them. They can lay down an insane level of fire power, especially with the lovely masters of destruction rule.

Speaking of which, if you haven't already, pick up the Dilgar fleet book, it's a must.

 

[Locutus9956]

I would say that you can play any fleet you like really. Since the tourney list, I think the Minbari are fair (though still annoying), the ISA Whitestars are balanced and even the Vorlons and Shadows feel alot more 'right'.

The Dilgar though are definitely fine. Theyre lovely models too.

If you play as them I would suggest you rely mainly on your smaller faster ships and make good use of the pentacon formation to deliver vicious killing blows. The Tagrath in particular is a NASTY little ship.

The Dilgars big weakness though is that they need to get very close to really hit you hard and their ships are relatively crunchy so the trick is to get your fleet into firing position before it gets decimated (you could say that really thats the trick to ANY fleet but with the Dilgar its very much a case of get into close range and BLAM enemy fleet goes boom, but actually GETTING there is easier said than done) Also if the enemy gets in behind you or on your flanks life becomes much trickier for the Dilgar.

But yeah overall, a fun race

 

[CZuschlag]

Our LGS has concerns -- concerns that the Targrath is too much. We have come to the conclusion that the Dilgar, when heavily weighted to the "caliper" (Jashakar, Ochliavita, Omelos, Targrath, Tikrit, Mankhat, Garasoch) ships are downright deadly. We expect the Garasoch, which normally doesn't join these ranks, to get there when fighters in general get fixed.

Note the difference between the Tourney Targrath and the basic Targrath. There's a reason why this vile ship got a harsh detune, as the output fire is almost over the top. And these things will get there -- speed 12 allows for speed 18 on APtE.

Pentacon has to be set up with large amounts of initiative sinking, but when it hits, it's huge. You can one-shot War ships. That's pretty insane.

The assault ships each have issues that can be worked around, but it's very scenario-specific. If you can make sure your deployment zone is within 24" or less, say, or can get a battlefield that gives enough cover so the majority of your fleet can get to 24" before contact occurs, there's nothing wrong with the SFoS Rohric, Tourney Rohric, SFoS Khatrik, or (best) Tourney Wahant. Unfortunately, most of the tournament is played at range 36", so the best assault ship of the lot can't get used regularly in a place that gives it a shot to shine. Campaign Rohrics can be used freely to guard the backs of fleets, and what it gives up in speed, it gets back in range. It can turn almost on a dime.

Unfortunately, the War-level ships are just awful. The Mishakur is a waste of time, IMHO. The Mankhat tries, but just isn't solid enough.

Final word of advice: this is a CAF-optimized fleet. It was designed with this order in mind above all else. You will spend your whole game meeting three objectives:

1). Getting Your Bolters in Range
2). Lining Up Next Turn's Concentrate All Fire
3). Firing Bolters to either Kill Enemy Ships Spontaneously Before They Fire

All Power to Engines is most of the answer to point 1.
A whole lot of careful maneouver, like a QB leading a reciever, is the answer to point 2.
The Pentacon, currently, is the answer to point 3.

Hit these, you won't just win. You'll rake.

 

[CZuschlag]

And, as to the poll? Sorry, I forgot to address that. It may need a fourth entry --- Power Race (and, a few of my opponents may say, possibly broken .. the other way.)

As that option isn't there, I won't vote yet.

 

[jahatch28]

Well, thanx for the advice so far guys.

I have a Targrath and I'll track down the tourney list for comparison - as I've yet to play and will be starting with some demos and such I'm not too worried about completely annihilating the enemy yet..

so, I'll only take 1 Targrath for now.. just so as to not scare everyone away =p

Also, I like the idea of the slow movers... so, I'll pick up one at least to try out (the Rohric seemed best to me as well)...

And as for power races - again, not looking to dominate or having to use only part of the fleet or revised tourney rules to play fair...

That said, I know the Mongoose guy out here plays Minbari.. so, I may have to resort to Targraths to win =p... and I don't know if he's using the old list or the tourney list either....

But, an excellent start for now
thanx,
Josh

Oh, one P.s. - what is up with the scale of the ships and the base sizes?

I've got an Omelos and the Ochlavita - some skirmish level, similar starts, completely different size on the table top??? what gives?

And what's with the base sizes of the ships? how does that affect play, or is it only for stability? It looks like so far that Skirmish and Patrol level ships have small bases and anything else get's a large base... is that true for all races? what about those jumpo ships with 2 bases holding them up????

Josh

 

[Geekybiker]

Also, I like the idea of the slow movers... so, I'll pick up one at least to try out (the Rohric seemed best to me as well)...


Oh, one P.s. - what is up with the scale of the ships and the base sizes?

I've got an Omelos and the Ochlavita - some skirmish level, similar starts, completely different size on the table top??? what gives?

And what's with the base sizes of the ships? how does that affect play, or is it only for stability? It looks like so far that Skirmish and Patrol level ships have small bases and anything else get's a large base... is that true for all races? what about those jumpo ships with 2 bases holding them up????

Josh

The slow mover look like a good idea until they cant get in range, and then get speed critted so they're out of the battle with minor damage.

As for base sizes. There is no official base sizes. you can use whatever you think will keep your models stable for now.

The Ochlavita vs Omelos- One is a mold made by AOG originally for babylon wars. The omelos is a original model for ACTA.

 

[Benjamen the Wolf]

Using a 3 pt raid as an example, as I have thought about starting the Dilgar in the future, would taking 3 Targraths be over the top? Looking at the Tournament list I would say no, but I have not had a chance to look at the fleet book yet.

Not sure if its allowed, but would someone mind pm'ing me the stats for the Targrath from the fleet book? So I can see the differences between the two lists.

 

[CZuschlag]

The book Targrath is quite different, but I simply suggest checking your Local Game Shop (LGS) and getting the expansion if you're interested. At least check it out there; it's really a pretty cheap expansion, and there are several specific rules you're going to want to have to play -- especially Pentacons and Masters of Destruction.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Not sure if its allowed, but would someone mind pm'ing me the stats for the Targrath from the fleet book? So I can see the differences between the two lists.

They may be in the Shipviewer, wherever that is these days (I use a much-modified offline version).

Wulf

 

[Locutus9956]

At our local club we use the tourney lists for pretty much everything so I havent faced the book Dilgar but I can say with some assurance the Tourney Dilgar seem perfectly fair to me.

Now our only Dilgar player is still fairly new to the game and learning the game as he goes (and for that matter fairly new to space combat games in general whereas I have been playing ACTA since its release and BFG, B5Wars, Starfleet battles etc for years so I have something of an experience advantage) but nontheless I have several times thrashed the tournament Dilgar which leads me to believe that theyre deffinitely not broken. Im sure as my opponent learsn his fleet we will get much closer results and I will lose my fair share but the fleet seems fine to me. The Tagrath IS a nasty ship but it really isnt all that tough. Yes its speed 12 but its still only hull 5 with no stealth or interceptors or anything. It dies quite easily for a raid level ship.

I know there are some balance issues with some of the Sky Full of Stars fleet lists (which is precisely WHY we use the tournament lists). But all I can say from experience is the tournament Dilgar are NOT broken. Ive Beaten them decisively at 5 point raid with EA, at 10 pt battle with EA, at 5 pt Battle with Minbari and seen them TRASHSED at 5 pt Raid by the Vorlons and trounced them at 5 pt Raid with the ISA (though admittedly I was messing around and used a Victory.... (Tagrath go boom.....)

Oh by the way:

The Fleet Book (effectively SFoS) Tagrath is the same as the tourney one EXCEPT it also jump capable and has 4AD of 20" Disruption Torpedoes and 6 AD of turreted Light Pulsars. It was SICK. The toruney version is MUCH fairer. Its still a hell of a punch but at least it cant fire away at you on the way in

 

[blackphoenix]

I'd like to see the Jump Point come back, but the rest is cool.

 

[Tibour]

Great fleet that is lots of fun to play. Works really well agaist early to Mid EA as you can have clouds of fighters.

 

[lastbesthope]

Not sure if its allowed, but would someone mind pm'ing me the stats for the Targrath from the fleet book? So I can see the differences between the two lists.

They may be in the Shipviewer, wherever that is these days (I use a much-modified offline version).

Wulf

The book stats (not tourney lists) are at my website, hit the www button at the bottom of my post.

LBH

 

[Davesaint]

I am still wonder why people are having so much trouble getting the Dilgar to range 10. Are people not playing on the standard 4'X6' table? The Minbari and the Centari with the right fleets can do some damage on the way in for the Dilgar, however our local Dilgar player doesn't seem to have much trouble with closing the range, especially with the Omelos, Ochlivedia, Targrath, and the Tikrit.


Dave

 

[Locutus9956]

Getting to range 10" is easy enough but the trick is doing it with enough ships to really count and when you get in close its easy for a cunning opponent to overshoot you or dodge out of your main fire arcs...

 

[CZuschlag]

Dave, for what it's worth, when we do our fights, it revolves around early battle passes, which are typically in decisive favor of the Dilgar. When you finally get behind me, you chip, chip, chip away at that lead. If the Dilgar don't get to really really put a hurt on early thanks to CAF, that lead will chip away all the faster (especially in Tourney with the mysterious loss of the Targrath turret system, and, therefore, all sideways bearing firepower. Offlining the D-Torps and reducing the turret and Bolters is what I would have expected.)