Developers: Conan 2nd Ed. Combat Chapter!

[Soulmage]

I posted this in response to a Planet Mongoose entry, but thought it should be noted here as well. . .

Don't be afraid to re-write d20 combat as needed for simplicity/excitement.

I dont think anybody would claim D20 combat as it stands is the "ultimate evolution" of roleplaying combat systems. More like its just "what we've got to work with." Significant areas of the rules could use major revisions. Grappling, bull rushing, overbearing all immediately come to mind as waaaay to complicated for what ought to be fairly simple. There's plenty of other things that could be improved. Don't stint with the red ink!

Make Conan 2E the gold standard of RPG combat! There is no reason it can't be!

 

[Lucius]

Hear Hear!

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Sutek]

My group likes to say "Less roll playing, and more role playing."

Essentially, I agree, but D20 is also what they're working with. Not only that, but I do fgeel that it's one of the best systems around because of it's flexibility, not necessarily realism. It's definitely a high adventure style of getting things done mechanically, but that's also why it gets complicated when you're trying ot enact specific reality, like a grapple attack. One roll of the atack die is meant to represent a cluster of the best possible strikes any given person can deliver in one round of a combat - it isn't one roll, one swing. But when you want to do a grapple, that's exactly what the roll represents - a single act meant to grab someone.

Just keep that sort of thing in mind too. You're not going to see a next-gen D20 come out of this, I wouldn't imagine, but rather a further refining of the D20 game mechanics to better fit the Conan genre without deviating or making up too many new bits.

 

[Soulmage]

I think next-gen d20 is exactly what should come out of this.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think d20 combat is awful and should just be scrapped. I'm just saying some areas of it could definitely use some improvements. Grapple is just one example of an overly complicated resolution system that technically considers a lot of factors but looses the fun/speed of play in the process.

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For example, if I were re-writing grappling for Conan, I would probably say:

Starting a Grapple

* As a standard action, roll to hit touch AC to initiate grapple

* Target gets AoO, and your grapple attempt fails if they inflict damage.

* If successful, make opposed grapple check = Str + Base Attack Bonus or Escape Artist check. No other mods. (See 1 below)

* The winner gets to inflict unarmed or small weapon damage (if already in hand), and may choose to end the grapple at that point if they wish.

Consequences of grappling:

* No threatened area

* Loss of dex bonus to AC (vs. all opponents)

Attacking into or out of a grapple:

* May not attack out of a grapple unless you have more limbs to grapple with than your opponent - such as an Octopus or Salamander. DM's call. (See 2 below)

* When attacking into a Grapple take a -4 to hit, and your ally provides a +4 cover bonus to your target. Follow normal rules for striking cover if you miss your target.
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(1) Conan is always out-grappling larger creatures. Its more cinematic this way and its just more complication for little benefit to include size and stability mods.

(2) This is an easy ruling for a DM to make, but would be a long complicated rule to write out if you tried to do it that way. Rulings like this are why the game is played with a DM.


Anyway. . . there might be one or two other things that need to be added. . . but not much. Compare that against the full page of small print grapple rules in the PH and see if it doesn't seem like a more fun and easier option?

 

[Sutek]

I'd do it this way:

* As a standard action, make an attack against Touch AC to initiate the Grapple.

* The target gets an AOO.

* The target can only break Grapples / Holds as a standard action. If you manage to maintain the Grapple until your next INIT count, you initiate a Hold. If you manage to maintain a Hold until your next INIT count, you may choose to Pin.

* Holds can be varried from a list of possible manuvers, some being subduing Holds; others being joint locks/breaks.

* Pinning an oppponent means the same as it does now.

* Breaking a Grapple means you are free next INIT count. Breaking a Hold means you are Grappled, and breaking a Pin means you are in a Hold.

I'd say that multiple limbs just ad +2 for each limb towards maintaining or initiating any of the three conditions...

...otherwise I agree with you. I just hate the constant roll versus roll stuff. It's over complicated. Make it a single attack roll and you succeed. The target can't ever try to get out of the hold until he gets a turn to act on his INIT count. Put it in the realm of other attacks and it makes it more cinematic too.

 

[Baduin]

I would think about introducing some innvations from the new Star Wars D20 books - eg damage bonus instead of iterative attacks, abilty to convert move and standart actions into swift actions etc.

As for grapple - I would add the rule that only humanoids (including apes) snakes and monsters with tentacles can Pin other characters. Animals and monster not belonging to the above types can pin only at GM's discretion. When you are grappled by that kind of opponent, you can attack them with weapons (not only light ones). GM can always rule that such an attack is impossible.

I would also consider a rule that your opponent in grapple always takes 10 (in effect, it would introduce a grapple defence score).

 

[VincentDarlage]

As for grapple - I would add the rule that only humanoids (including apes) snakes and monsters with tentacles can Pin other characters. Animals and monster not belonging to the above types can pin only at GM's discretion. When you are grappled by that kind of opponent, you can attack them with weapons (not only light ones). GM can always rule that such an attack is impossible.

As someone who grew up on a farm, I have been pinned by horses and cattle - up against fences, barns, etc. Large weapons probably would not have helped me in those instances.

 

[Axerules]

I would also consider a rule that your opponent in grapple always takes 10 (in effect, it would introduce a grapple defence score).

Grapple Defence is already in the Atlantean Edition. The versus roll is an option.

 

[Spectator]

Vincent, you obviously lost your saving throw when encountered by said cattle and horses. I have always made mine and was able to use my dagger against such equine and bovine avatars of doom in my family farm just north of Tallahassee.Had I my samurai sword, grappling would have been a no-no and steak would be for dinner.

Then I put my boots of escaping on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWrv1Rq4Wg

 

[Belkregos]

News at the mongoose blog


Know, O Prince...

...that I've handed a draft of Conan 2nd edition in. Now it gets poked at by the editors, and the playtesters, and then I remember all the other bits I want to put it, and we poke it some more.

Now onto an adventure to show off some of the new rules and options.

Gar