I know I have this labeled for Conan, but it could apply to other games (D20 based especially).
Now according to the way initiative works, you figure out who is aware of who, with the aware people getting a surprise round. Then, everybody rolls for initiative. Higher people go first, whit lower people getting no active defenses until their first action (I assume this is to simulate that "catching up to speed/dear god I'm in a fight" type response). OK, that's good for about 90% of the situations I'm seeing.
What I'm seeing about 10% of the time is players "gaming" the initiative for their benefit, even when it's not realistic.
The Scene: The king stands at a table covered with gold, silver and jewels spilled across its surface. Four guards are standing about 20ft away from him, between you and the noble, eyeing you suspiciously, weapons at the ready.
Player: I approach the guards smiling. As soon as I'm withing 30', I roll for initiative. Oh, I got a nat 20. I Charge past the flat-footed guards and strike down the king who can't defend himself.
Or
The Scene: A city guard has stopped you for suspicious activities, he is covering you with a loaded crossbow from about 25 ft away, demanding you drop to your knees until assistance arrives.
Player: OK, I try to intimidate him into putting down his weapon, by commenting on his masculinity. That failed? OK, I don't care for this, so I start combat (rolls init). OK, I got higher, I use quick-draw to pull my knife, cross the 25ft and stab him. He's flat-footed so I get sneak-attack damage.
In these instances, the player is initiating combat when it's most advantageous to him. The problem is, their opponents should already be in a combat status - even if they haven't attacked. The kings guards are mostly relaxed until someone moves into threat range of the king (think Jet Li's Hero, where the Jet's characters goal was to get into striking range of the king, before the guards struck him down). As soon as the players cross a specific line, the guards go into combat mode, switching to a defensive stance, and holding their action until the threat becomes obvious, or dissipates (players leave the threat range).
In the second scene, combat has started for the guard when he pulled his crossbow and trained it on the player. Even though the player may be trying to negotiate his way out of the mess, the guard is now in a combat rush, holding his action, waiting for suspicious activity. Which includes the player trying to defend himself. In a sense, the guard has the drop on the player, and this should act as an extended surprise round with the guard holding his action. If the player does something, like running for cover, drawing, a weapon, the guard shoots him with no active defense.
This doesn't mean the players can't work around these situations. The players know where the kings guards are, they can use stealth/ranged tactics if need be. In both situations the players can use bluff to attempt a distraction (player to guard: I think that noblewoman behind you is in danger LOOK! <guard falls for bluff> Player dives for cover, while drawing sword)
The Scene: The barbarian player has been thrown into the gladiator pits for the amusement of the crowd. The player and the opposing gladiator stand in their assigned spots, 50ft away from each other, armed with broadswords and shields. The noble drops his thumb, signalling the fight to begin:
Player: I won initiative, so I Charge the gladiator. I roll really low for an attack, but he's flat footed, so I still hit. With the extra damage from the charge, I do enough to do a massive damage check.
In this instance, both players are aware of the fight, and are in a combat status. As soon as the thumb drops, both should be in their defensive stances. This is a fight designed to give the crowd maximum thrills, so they want to stretch it out to do away with the initial flat-footedness.
The Scene: A bar. The PCs are sitting at a table enjoying their triumphs. One of the players gets up to get new drinks, as he approaches he sees an old foe who spots him as well so no surprise round.
Player 1: Inesh? I hate that guy, and he still owes us gold. I always said I would beat it out of him so now is the time. I leap at him throwing a right hook. <rolls init> Nuts, a 1.
Player 2: I rolled a 20. I leap up from the chair, run past Player1, and sock Inesh in the jaw.
As hard as it may be for some players to accept, while some players may be involved in combat, the rest are not. The mistake here is trying to get all of the initiative rolling out of the way, letting other characters feel as if they should have an input. In this instance, only immediately aware characters should get to roll/act on initiative, meaning Inesh and Player1 get their licks in at each other. If you want, as soon as one of them attacks, the others can make notice rolls to see that their companion is engaged in a fight, and assisting on the next round.
So keep in mind, even though the rules don't really state it, combat may have begun around the players, without actually directly affecting them instantly.
Now according to the way initiative works, you figure out who is aware of who, with the aware people getting a surprise round. Then, everybody rolls for initiative. Higher people go first, whit lower people getting no active defenses until their first action (I assume this is to simulate that "catching up to speed/dear god I'm in a fight" type response). OK, that's good for about 90% of the situations I'm seeing.
What I'm seeing about 10% of the time is players "gaming" the initiative for their benefit, even when it's not realistic.
The Scene: The king stands at a table covered with gold, silver and jewels spilled across its surface. Four guards are standing about 20ft away from him, between you and the noble, eyeing you suspiciously, weapons at the ready.
Player: I approach the guards smiling. As soon as I'm withing 30', I roll for initiative. Oh, I got a nat 20. I Charge past the flat-footed guards and strike down the king who can't defend himself.
Or
The Scene: A city guard has stopped you for suspicious activities, he is covering you with a loaded crossbow from about 25 ft away, demanding you drop to your knees until assistance arrives.
Player: OK, I try to intimidate him into putting down his weapon, by commenting on his masculinity. That failed? OK, I don't care for this, so I start combat (rolls init). OK, I got higher, I use quick-draw to pull my knife, cross the 25ft and stab him. He's flat-footed so I get sneak-attack damage.
In these instances, the player is initiating combat when it's most advantageous to him. The problem is, their opponents should already be in a combat status - even if they haven't attacked. The kings guards are mostly relaxed until someone moves into threat range of the king (think Jet Li's Hero, where the Jet's characters goal was to get into striking range of the king, before the guards struck him down). As soon as the players cross a specific line, the guards go into combat mode, switching to a defensive stance, and holding their action until the threat becomes obvious, or dissipates (players leave the threat range).
In the second scene, combat has started for the guard when he pulled his crossbow and trained it on the player. Even though the player may be trying to negotiate his way out of the mess, the guard is now in a combat rush, holding his action, waiting for suspicious activity. Which includes the player trying to defend himself. In a sense, the guard has the drop on the player, and this should act as an extended surprise round with the guard holding his action. If the player does something, like running for cover, drawing, a weapon, the guard shoots him with no active defense.
This doesn't mean the players can't work around these situations. The players know where the kings guards are, they can use stealth/ranged tactics if need be. In both situations the players can use bluff to attempt a distraction (player to guard: I think that noblewoman behind you is in danger LOOK! <guard falls for bluff> Player dives for cover, while drawing sword)
The Scene: The barbarian player has been thrown into the gladiator pits for the amusement of the crowd. The player and the opposing gladiator stand in their assigned spots, 50ft away from each other, armed with broadswords and shields. The noble drops his thumb, signalling the fight to begin:
Player: I won initiative, so I Charge the gladiator. I roll really low for an attack, but he's flat footed, so I still hit. With the extra damage from the charge, I do enough to do a massive damage check.
In this instance, both players are aware of the fight, and are in a combat status. As soon as the thumb drops, both should be in their defensive stances. This is a fight designed to give the crowd maximum thrills, so they want to stretch it out to do away with the initial flat-footedness.
The Scene: A bar. The PCs are sitting at a table enjoying their triumphs. One of the players gets up to get new drinks, as he approaches he sees an old foe who spots him as well so no surprise round.
Player 1: Inesh? I hate that guy, and he still owes us gold. I always said I would beat it out of him so now is the time. I leap at him throwing a right hook. <rolls init> Nuts, a 1.
Player 2: I rolled a 20. I leap up from the chair, run past Player1, and sock Inesh in the jaw.
As hard as it may be for some players to accept, while some players may be involved in combat, the rest are not. The mistake here is trying to get all of the initiative rolling out of the way, letting other characters feel as if they should have an input. In this instance, only immediately aware characters should get to roll/act on initiative, meaning Inesh and Player1 get their licks in at each other. If you want, as soon as one of them attacks, the others can make notice rolls to see that their companion is engaged in a fight, and assisting on the next round.
So keep in mind, even though the rules don't really state it, combat may have begun around the players, without actually directly affecting them instantly.