Describing Traveller Tech level
- Thread starter Sorin
- Start date
Solomani666
Mongoose
rinku said:You mean LSP isn't already manufacturing their parts in the Extents with sweatshop Vargr labour?
LOL!
Culture-pig
Mongoose
With regard to 'just pressing a button and letting the tech do the work' reducing players actually problem solving, from my perspective technology (and many other things) are a double edged sword with both sides engaged in a sort of arms race.
So, it may well be possible that there is a button to do X in this day and age, but there is also someone charged with stopping people do X, who also have a button they can press to stop them..........
Therefore, the players are back with solving the problem by coming up with something out of the ordinary, rather than relying upon tech since the 'good' tech and 'bad' tech cancel each other out !
Thanks
Martin.
So, it may well be possible that there is a button to do X in this day and age, but there is also someone charged with stopping people do X, who also have a button they can press to stop them..........
Therefore, the players are back with solving the problem by coming up with something out of the ordinary, rather than relying upon tech since the 'good' tech and 'bad' tech cancel each other out !
Thanks
Martin.
Sorin said:
One need not go towards the future to find the analogy - look to the past. Look at some basic technology we've developed, like the car. My car today is vastly superior in every way to the Model T - yet the function is no different. I can get a GPS mapper to tell me where I'm at when at sea, yet they did the same thing with an astrolabe 500 years ago.
Tools and machines make things easier, but they don't actually change anything. An autochef of the future might synthesize my meal from recycled waste - but it's still cooking me a meal. Don't let the idea of future tech get in the way of viewing everything. Things change, but they really don't change that much. People started out throwing rocks at each other, then bullets, and in Traveller you progress up to plasma weapons. The end result is still the same - if you can hit something you can usually kill, or at least hurt it. So those guys running around with plasma rifles now have battledress to protect them. The caveman ran around with a rock wearing a bearskin for protection. Things changed, but they also stayed relatively the same.
Mithras
Banded Mongoose
Definately NOT Star Trek TNG or VOY. It may be this that is causing the upset, in ST technology is a plot busting wonder tool that the writers are constantly having to find workarounds for. Whereas in Aliens, its like today, just with more power. Traveller is about people solving problems on their own, its why Marc Miller never included robots.
F33D said:
It changes the fact that you have less (or no) people preparing and cooking your food. And yeah, it's a time saver. Just like my car is much faster and more reliable than a Model T. But the essence (eating or driving) of the act remains the same. So instead of spending hours preparing and cooking my meal, I can pop a frozen entree in the microwave today and dinner is ready. An autochef works the same, but probably with more variety and perhaps better taste. But my experience eating is the same, the preparation is not.
The tools free up your time so you can use it elsewhere, but they don't change the activity. That is the point I'm making.
Mithras
Banded Mongoose
F33D said:
It was, but I read an interview with Marc that says just that, I guess Book 8: Robots came about from fan pressure. Only the Zhodani ever use them, and the Research Base on Vanejen!! They are almost NEVER mentioned in the adventures or sourcebooks.
Traveller is about REAL MEN. Doing stuff.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
RPGs are about interaction, so robots usually feel a little off. Also, wasn't a big fan of the Virus, despite the fact I am a big fan of the revisioned Galactica, with the exception of the last few episodes.
I read somewhere that you have to view TLs as having one decimal place.
I read somewhere that you have to view TLs as having one decimal place.
alex_greene
Guest
TL 6: *thumps the side a couple of times*
TL 7: *Some assembly required. Batteries not included.*
TL 8: "Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?"
TL 9: *wave hands vaguely in front of the screen*
TL 10: "An off switch. She could get years for that. Off switches are illegal."
TL 11: "Grav boot ain't your trouble. I seen the trouble plain as day when I was down there on my back before. Your reg couple's bad."
TL 13: *WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. HAVE YOU TRIED TURNING IT OFF AND TURNING IT ON AGAIN?"
TL 7: *Some assembly required. Batteries not included.*
TL 8: "Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?"
TL 9: *wave hands vaguely in front of the screen*
TL 10: "An off switch. She could get years for that. Off switches are illegal."
TL 11: "Grav boot ain't your trouble. I seen the trouble plain as day when I was down there on my back before. Your reg couple's bad."
TL 13: *WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. HAVE YOU TRIED TURNING IT OFF AND TURNING IT ON AGAIN?"
Mithras
Banded Mongoose
F33D said:Okay, I and many other GM's used that product from Marc to make robots in the 3I. So you will want to revise your memory a bit.
Well, I don't know what happened in your games. How many books, and adventures do you remember robots featuring in? Argon Gambit? Prison Planet? Leviathan? etc etc? Tools were provided, but they were sort of shunned in the 3i.
steve98052
Mongoose
The way Traveller keeps robots from taking all the interesting jobs away from people is the Imperial law that places responsibility for the actions of robots with the sentient beings who are in charge of them. Because the law has a lot of latitude in interpreting who is "in charge" of a robot, there's a lot of risk involved in using robots in situations where something could go wrong. For example, if a robot-operated vehicle crashes because the robot makes a mistake, the liability might fall on the person who gave orders to the robot, the owner of the robot, the renter of a rented robot, the manufacturer of the robot, the store that sold the robot, the cashier who processed the sale, the factory employees who constructed the robot, the programmers who developed the robot's control software, and so forth. If it's a combat robot, there are a lot more bad things it can do that might get the person "in charge" into trouble.F33D said:
Because of the risk that of being held responsible for a robot that does something bad, anyone with a lot to risk (meaning any big business that isn't so huge that it can influence the application of law) will be careful about what sort of capabilities it grants to robots it produces, sells, etc. A robot vehicle driver might be so cautious that it annoys passengers, always yielding right-of-way to sentient drivers if failing to do so could possibly result in a crash. A combat robot might be given so little autonomy that it's little more than a directly-operated drone. A cooking robot might refuse to use any ingredients that aren't produced by a recognized supplier. A medical robot might only treat people who have signed an advance-consent form defining who is recognized as being "in charge" of medical robots.
The history behind the constraints of robots is that the Ancients left war machines on Vland that were such a threat to Vilani that they were unable to advance in civilization until the machines finally stopped operating, which led to a distrust of robots that persisted well into their technological era.
In the modern world, some robots already have similar restrictions. In particular, military drones may operate semi-autonomously to travel from their launch sites to their combat theaters, but once it's time to target weapons their human operators are in charge. (And the operators are, in turn, constrained by their commanders' orders.)
